debate : The US, a no vacation nation (salary, ethic, companies)

[JMT]

Originally Posted by Chicago60614

Here's a chart I found of average days per year:

Italy 42 days
France 37 days
Germany 35 days
Brazil 34 days
United Kingdom 28 days
Canada 26 days
Korea 25 days
Japan 25 days
U.S. 13 days


We had a girl come from Europe and transfer to our Chicago office, since her husband was here for school and at least she could have a job waiting for her. She was talking about being in total shock at the lack of vacation days in the United States. She said every entry level person she knows in Belgium gets at least 35 days a year of vacation, and they make you take all of it every year.

She was also very confused about what "sick days" are in the United States. She had never even heard the term in Europe. She said in Europe if you're sick or have a doctor appointment, you just tell your boss and don't come into work. The fact we have to keep track of that here, and build up "sick days" seems very "backwards".

I also felt bad for her trying to fill out health insurance. I was kinda embarassed, she just looked at me like "what kind of country is this!?". She'd never heard of Health Insurance either, since in most every developed country in the world, any and all health care coverage, perscriptions, dental, vision, etc. etc. is 100% paid for by the government, or at least a very cheap 1 time payment per visit. For example, I think any perscription in the UK, regardless of how much it would cost in the United States, is a flat rate of around $10 dollars (US, cheaper there cause of the exchange rate).

This discussion is morphing into a political one and should probably be moved to the politics board.

At any rate, no, most developed countries do NOT offer 100% free health insurance for everyone. About 2/3 of the French purchase supplementary health insurance because their socialized health coverage does NOT cover everything. Same for the UK and Canada. And those socialized health schemes are reducing what they cover.

Many Canadians skip across the border to get surgeries done in the US because they're not available in Canada. Many in the UK are taking "health vacations" to the US or even India and Eastern Europe to get health procedures done that are simply unavailable in the UK. And if you're a pregnant woman in the UK, good luck getting the government to pay for your OB/GYN.

So back to the OP. No, I do not think that the US government has any business telling a private entity how much vacation time they should pay for their employees. A good corporation will give paid vacations as incentives to attract the best employees, but I refuse to believe that a corporation should be held at gunpoint by the government and forced to do so.

[Chicago60614]

Right, every single system is going to have it's issues. Although for the average joe schmo on the street, with the ususal health care issues, those systems are going to be free and normally easy to achieve. I've studied up on them a lot.

There are cutting edge procedures and surgeries with long lines, supply lagging demand, but obviously we have that in the US as well. Other countries get plans to supplement their coverage, but we're paying for the whole thing. Even with employer plans, you're still spending hundreds or thousands a year in premiums. It is political though, and I didn't mean to drag it into that like I did...

[mike0421]

Originally Posted by Chicago60614

Here's a longer, but different list. This is a list of the amount of time countries REQUIRE employers to give their employees off each year. This is split between required holidays, and required vacation time....

The United States is the only country listed who's government doesn't require that a company give an employee a single day off work. Obviously they all do, and the average of large US firms is around 13 vacation days and 9 paid holidays. So a total of around 22 for the US. But then again, this list is just *required* days off, so of all these amounts listed, the actual averages are going to be higher. Everyone tends to give a little more than the bare minimum requirement, or your company would be seen as slave drivers.

Vacation Days Paid public holidays Total
Australia 31
Austria 38
Belgium 30
Bulgaria 32
Canada 20
Cyprus 36
Czech Rep. 31
Denmark 35
Egypt 37
Estonia 38
Finland 44
France 40
Germany 34
Greece 37
Hong Kong 26
Hungary 33
India 31
Indonesia 25
Ireland 29
Israel 40
Italy 31
Japan 35
Latvia 31
Lebanon 33
Lithuania 40
Luxembourg 35
Malaysia 28
Malta 38
Morocco 40
Netherlands 28
New Zealand 31
Pakistan 28
Philippines 19
Poland 36
Portugal 34
Romania 28
Singapore 26
Slovakia 35
Slovenia 36
South Africa 33
South Korea 30
Spain 36
Sweden 36
Taiwan 25
Thailand 19
United Arab Emirates 39
United Kingdom 28
Vietnam 22
.
United States 0

Good. That's why we are the greatest nation in the world, still, IMO. I don't want government interceding into business, unless it is absolutely necessary. If you want a government state that acts like a babysitter, move to one of these nations. I'll stay here.

[Visvaldis]

Americans already have acquired a reputation as a nation that lives to work, instead of working to live.
Quality of life is something that interests only a few.

[Gtownoe]

Assuming that we are all employees (excluding employers) it would seem that we would want to puch for better employee benefits. If you look at the pay discrepencies between lower level employees and CEO's than it should really be an issue. U.S. CEO's have the highest pay differential in the world. I will try to get some stats but the difference is almost double that of most European and Asian countries.

I'm not an advocate for socialism...or extreme social practices...but I am for improving the quality of life for Americans. It sometimes seems that we as Americans have allowed this freedom mantra be used against us by those with all of the wealth. Any thing that would improve the quality of life of the middle class at a minor expense to the rich (a lets say 2-3% tax increase on those making over $250,000 a year) is immediately deemed as unpatriotic or UnAmerican.

Who are we really fighting for?

[loveitorleaveit]

Originally Posted by mike0421

Good. That's why we are the greatest nation in the world, still, IMO. I don't want government interceding into business, unless it is absolutely necessary. If you want a government state that acts like a babysitter, move to one of these nations. I'll stay here.

you're damn right. I'm a crack dealer : I don't want a government interceding into my business. People, let's shut down all the police departements across the country. I don't need a babysitter to teach me wow to behave.

[newcastle]

Originally Posted by gildossantos

The US are


Besides getting less vacation than workers in many other countries, Americans often don't use all the time that they do get, and what vacation they take is spent in small slices and often in contact with the office, according to findings from studies.

What about you?

1- what's your job?
2- how many paid vacation days do you have?
3- do you use your vacation days or not? why?
4- do you stay in contact with the office while on vacation?
5- would you agree with a federal law mandating that companies pay employees for time off or that they grant them a minimum amount of vacation days?
6- if your boss asked you to choose : pay raise or more paid vacation days, what would you choose?

Thanks for countribution?

1. I am a director in the health care field
2. I have 4 weeks paid vacation
3. yes, I use my vacation days
4. yes, I stay in contact (Blackberry)
5. Yes, I would agree with a European style number of days off plus public holidays.
6. Pay raise.

[Visvaldis]

One aspect yet to be mentioned...
I have encountered a surprising number of Americans who don't know what to do with their spare time, they get bored and are relieved to return to their jobs! Sounds crazy to me. They can't think of anything else better to do than be told what to do. Nietzsche has a thought about this.

[bigdave01]

I'm moving to Europe or Canada, LOL. Or, maybe I'll live in the US, and work in Canada .

[Hungry For Cheese]

Originally Posted by gildossantos

The US are


Besides getting less vacation than workers in many other countries, Americans often don't use all the time that they do get, and what vacation they take is spent in small slices and often in contact with the office, according to findings from studies.

What about you?

1- what's your job?
2- how many paid vacation days do you have?
3- do you use your vacation days or not? why?
4- do you stay in contact with the office while on vacation?
5- would you agree with a federal law mandating that companies pay employees for time off or that they grant them a minimum amount of vacation days?
6- if your boss asked you to choose : pay raise or more paid vacation days, what would you choose?

Thanks for countribution?

I'm 26, working a desk job that pretty much anyone can do. Work FT while going to college FT.

I forget how it breaks down, but we earn a % of PTO and Vacation hours based on the hours we work each week.
I can pretty much take 3-4 weekends every month and have 40+ PTO/Vac hours saved...even though I had just used 8-24hrs of it.

I use them, and just took 3 days in Match to go to Vegas
Now I am taking 2 days off to show my cousin from Germany a good time starting tomorrow

I don't stay in contact because my job isn't that important.

I'm not sure I'd agree with more laws. Even so, people would still NOT use their vacation...I'd hope you'd be smart enough to find a job that works for you and how you view vacations.

If I got to keep the same vacation days now...that allows me to take several mini-vacations annually, I'd take the raise. If I was only allowed to take something like 5 days paid off or even 2 weeks paid at the SAME time, I'd take the raise, ONLY if I could take unpaid days off.

When I worked at a supermarket it was worse than pulling teeth with tweezers. I couldnt take my company time off that was legal for me to take, couldnt take time w/o pay off, and could barely take time off for dental/doctor visits or sick-time....NEVER AGAIN!