Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 05-04-2018, 05:09 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,739,641 times
Reputation: 9728

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadking2003 View Post
so·cial·ism
ˈsōSHəˌlizəm/Submit
noun

a political and economic theory of social organization that advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

Where is that definition from?
On Wiki it says:
"Socialism is a range of economic and social systems characterized by social ownership and democratic control of the means of production, as well as the political theories and movements associated with them."

There is no socialism without the social ownership part.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-04-2018, 05:39 PM
 
31,907 posts, read 26,961,756 times
Reputation: 24814
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
It's funny somehow because a big chunk of the US is boringly flat. One could use the fastest rail technology available to cross it, it would not be much slower than planes. The fastest trains so far go about 370 mph.

I am happy we still have that train spirit over here. Train stations are often hot spots of cities, right in the center of cities, unlike airports.

Maybe that's one reason why many US cities feel so strange to Europeans. Few trains and train stations, few pedestrians, few relevant stores downtown... Where the heck is life hiding?

Yes, you do have plenty of vast open "flat" spaces; but they also are largely uninhabited. To wit as stated previously not enough population density to justify even "whistle stop" train service.


One thing people do not know or seem to forget is railroads are taxed (often heavily) on every piece of their ROW/infrastructure. That is were planes have an advantage as airlines aren't taxed on their flight paths.


One reason railroads began tearing up tracks (streamlining four tracks down to two or one), if not totally abandoning lines all together was the often heavy property taxes local areas imposed. New Jersey for instance (home to many railroads back in the day) did not get a state income tax until 1972.


Previously NJ taxed RRs so hard and much none made any sort of profit, or very little. https://www.trainorders.com/discussi....php?4,1725526


Of course when the RRs went away NJ had a huge property tax hole that needed to be filled...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-05-2018, 10:07 AM
 
Location: Dallas
31,290 posts, read 20,735,123 times
Reputation: 9325
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
It's funny somehow because a big chunk of the US is boringly flat. One could use the fastest rail technology available to cross it, it would not be much slower than planes. The fastest trains so far go about 370 mph.
Let's start with correct facts. The fastest train in the world goes 250 mph, not 370 mph and there is only one that goes that fast.

Then when you add in stops at every city, the average speed would probably be closer to 180 mph or less. So the trip from NYC to LA would take more than 14 hours. A plane makes it in about 5 hours.

https://www.railway-technology.com/f...-in-the-world/
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-05-2018, 10:08 AM
 
Location: Dallas
31,290 posts, read 20,735,123 times
Reputation: 9325
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Where is that definition from?
On Wiki it says:
"Socialism is a range of economic and social systems characterized by social ownership and democratic control of the means of production, as well as the political theories and movements associated with them."

There is no socialism without the social ownership part.
Google "Socialism definition"
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-05-2018, 12:18 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,739,641 times
Reputation: 9728
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadking2003 View Post
Let's start with correct facts. The fastest train in the world goes 250 mph, not 370 mph and there is only one that goes that fast.

Then when you add in stops at every city, the average speed would probably be closer to 180 mph or less. So the trip from NYC to LA would take more than 14 hours. A plane makes it in about 5 hours.

https://www.railway-technology.com/f...-in-the-world/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L0_Series

As the Chinese are competing with the Japanese, the record will surely tumble within just a few years. Even up to 350 mph in everyday life would be really impressive as the shuttle time to and from the airport as well as check-in and safety checks in would be obsolete.
From coast to coast, flying would still be faster of course, but I think most people don't go that far, anyway.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-05-2018, 03:07 PM
 
13,005 posts, read 18,903,092 times
Reputation: 9252
Maybe we need to learn from Spain. They have much lower costs. https://nextcity.org/daily/entry/spa...york-elevators
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-05-2018, 03:31 PM
 
31,907 posts, read 26,961,756 times
Reputation: 24814
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
It's funny somehow because a big chunk of the US is boringly flat. One could use the fastest rail technology available to cross it, it would not be much slower than planes. The fastest trains so far go about 370 mph.

I am happy we still have that train spirit over here. Train stations are often hot spots of cities, right in the center of cities, unlike airports.

Maybe that's one reason why many US cities feel so strange to Europeans. Few trains and train stations, few pedestrians, few relevant stores downtown... Where the heck is life hiding?

A few more points:


First and foremost there has *never* been one train or RR that went across the nation. Getting from say Boston or New York to California required one or more changes of train. Even then many RR's had to negotiate tracking rights to run over another RRs ROW.


Amtrak is no different in that regard; outside the NEC much of the tracks they run on are owned by other railroads (mostly freight). When push comes to shove those RRs put their trains first.


Next true HSR can only run on a dedicated ROW. It would costs hundreds of billions or maybe even near a trillion USD to build such a thing for very little benefit. Which is why no private RR or even investors would bother.


Related to above is fact diesel locomotives (prime mover of trains in the USA) top out at about 125mph. To get true HSR speeds (>150mph to or over 200mph) you need electric powered locomotives. Hence the high cost for creating HSR and no one is going to bother stringing hundreds of miles of wires across prairies, deserts, mountains, and so forth to create a nationwide HSR network. For one thing it just wouldn't make sense on many fronts.


Electric power for locomotives only makes sense where you have frequency of service. Hence the NEC, and most subway train service.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-05-2018, 03:47 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,739,641 times
Reputation: 9728
Wouldn't it be possible to use fuel cell-powered trains? They could use two separate cars for oxygen and hydrogen for safety reasons, one close to the front and one close to the end of the train.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-05-2018, 04:11 PM
 
31,907 posts, read 26,961,756 times
Reputation: 24814
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Wouldn't it be possible to use fuel cell-powered trains? They could use two separate cars for oxygen and hydrogen for safety reasons, one close to the front and one close to the end of the train.


Anything is *possible*, and fuel cell powered locomotives are already out there; well sort of:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrail


https://www.railway-technology.com/f...orrow-5692017/


Indian Railways to build fuel-cell battery locomotive


The Next Generation of Shunting Locomotives Uses Fuel Cell Power


Probably best explanation: https://www.railengineer.uk/2016/11/...powered-train/


Bringing this all home rail in the United States is probably fifty or so years behind Europe, Asia and other parts of the world. You'd think RR's were still running huge and heavy steam locomotives from the various crash worthy and other regulations/rules/laws.


That is the main problem with bringing any European or whatever rail technology to the USA. Amtrak's "Acela" HSR trains are much heavier than their European cousins, so much so they can barely get out of their own way. *LOL*


This is because laws in the USA demand rail locomotives/cars be designed for passenger/crew safety in crashes by structural integrity. This translates into heavy built locomotives and cars designed to withstand certain level of forces.


In Europe and most other countries the standard is to *avoid* collisions by using sophisticated systems known as Positive Train Control (PTC) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_train_control


As you may or may not have been aware from recent rail accidents in USA, we are no where near 100% on this with both passenger and freight railroads having dragged their feet, wailed, moaned and otherwise protested.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top