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Old 01-01-2017, 01:48 AM
 
34,279 posts, read 19,392,167 times
Reputation: 17261

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I know we are often focused on politics here, but lets touch on the other controversies side a little. Hacking has been a large focus this election, but lets look at what a truly spectacular hack might look like.

What if...someone completely owned google. Someone careful, and could:
See every search you made, every email you sent or received, and every password you used, or attempted to use.

Many use the same password everywhere. (BTW stop that, it will only end badly). Could they try that everywhere?

But of course...if you get any google app updated, or heck they could drop a remote install just with googles signing certs I suspect. They could be watching everything you do. they could be recording your microphone, and lots of things have microphones! I have...5 within just this room. And if they hacked my system via the google app update they could also pull all of my camera feeds. 3 in this room, and lots more all around. All from my computer. Would I notice? Maybe. But would I suspect google? Nope, that google install deleted itself, and then wiped the sectors of the drive, and self encrypted itself in memory. You had less then a second to intercept it and know.

For many of us, this would be no life ending ordeal....I mean yeah, someone sold your house, and sent money to ISIS from your account, accessed kiddie porn, and got you caught at it....but other then that....no big deal.

And thats from a person-person sort of thing. This is someone hating you.

Take it to a unrestricted global level. The only amazing thing is that most of the hacks have had small consequences. But with governments increasingly unleashing it, and some truly powerful neural networking systems, we could see this as the age where network security was forced to vastly change as security became paramount.
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Old 01-01-2017, 03:43 AM
 
52,430 posts, read 26,660,176 times
Reputation: 21097
Can't hack something that isn't connected to a network. For example voting machines.

Can't hack anything that doesn't run software or software is burned onto unchangeable media. For example, electromechanical controls, older cars, simple appliances, land line telephones, etc.

Can't hack something that is designed to be impossible to hack. For example an IBM Mainframe. This is why vast majority of banks keep their ledgers on these kinds of systems. They can't be hacked.

Can't hack processes that involve real paper documents being moved, endorsed and handled the old fashioned way. This would include house and auto sales in most states, death certificates, real currency and paper bonds.
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Old 01-01-2017, 04:45 AM
 
34,279 posts, read 19,392,167 times
Reputation: 17261
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaldoKitty View Post
Can't hack something that isn't connected to a network. For example voting machines.
Actually not correct. Some of the published demos has people simply switching out the memory cards, others have involved hacking the update software.
Quote:
Can't hack anything that doesn't run software or software is burned onto unchangeable media. For example, electromechanical controls, older cars, simple appliances, land line telephones, etc.
Which virtually no one uses.

Quote:
Can't hack something that is designed to be impossible to hack. For example an IBM Mainframe. This is why vast majority of banks keep their ledgers on these kinds of systems. They can't be hacked.
Oh you poor deluded person. Let me assure you, nothing is perfect.
Quote:
Can't hack processes that involve real paper documents being moved, endorsed and handled the old fashioned way. This would include house and auto sales in most states, death certificates, real currency and paper bonds.
Yes because back then the term used was "forgery"

And what does any of this have to do with the topic?
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Old 01-01-2017, 05:32 AM
 
Location: louisville
4,754 posts, read 2,742,840 times
Reputation: 1721
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
I know we are often focused on politics here, but lets touch on the other controversies side a little. Hacking has been a large focus this election, but lets look at what a truly spectacular hack might look like.

What if...someone completely owned google. Someone careful, and could:
See every search you made, every email you sent or received, and every password you used, or attempted to use.

Many use the same password everywhere. (BTW stop that, it will only end badly). Could they try that everywhere?

But of course...if you get any google app updated, or heck they could drop a remote install just with googles signing certs I suspect. They could be watching everything you do. they could be recording your microphone, and lots of things have microphones! I have...5 within just this room. And if they hacked my system via the google app update they could also pull all of my camera feeds. 3 in this room, and lots more all around. All from my computer. Would I notice? Maybe. But would I suspect google? Nope, that google install deleted itself, and then wiped the sectors of the drive, and self encrypted itself in memory. You had less then a second to intercept it and know.

For many of us, this would be no life ending ordeal....I mean yeah, someone sold your house, and sent money to ISIS from your account, accessed kiddie porn, and got you caught at it....but other then that....no big deal.

And thats from a person-person sort of thing. This is someone hating you.

Take it to a unrestricted global level. The only amazing thing is that most of the hacks have had small consequences. But with governments increasingly unleashing it, and some truly powerful neural networking systems, we could see this as the age where network security was forced to vastly change as security became paramount.
Unfortunately, our government doesn't even need to hack.

A certain federal law enforcement agency went to my buddies ISP where he's the VP. Sat him and the owner down and 'politely' asked to install a ghost server on their network. Under no veiled language no less.

We know google sends data dumps routinely to that and the other one who was brought into the fray for warrantless monitoring.

Our data is not safe at all.
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Old 01-01-2017, 06:29 AM
 
Location: NJ
23,577 posts, read 17,249,899 times
Reputation: 17625
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
I know we are often focused on politics here, but lets touch on the other controversies side a little. Hacking has been a large focus this election, but lets look at what a truly spectacular hack might look like.

What if...someone completely owned google. Someone careful, and could:
See every search you made, every email you sent or received, and every password you used, or attempted to use.

Many use the same password everywhere. (BTW stop that, it will only end badly). Could they try that everywhere?

But of course...if you get any google app updated, or heck they could drop a remote install just with googles signing certs I suspect. They could be watching everything you do. they could be recording your microphone, and lots of things have microphones! I have...5 within just this room. And if they hacked my system via the google app update they could also pull all of my camera feeds. 3 in this room, and lots more all around. All from my computer. Would I notice? Maybe. But would I suspect google? Nope, that google install deleted itself, and then wiped the sectors of the drive, and self encrypted itself in memory. You had less then a second to intercept it and know.

For many of us, this would be no life ending ordeal....I mean yeah, someone sold your house, and sent money to ISIS from your account, accessed kiddie porn, and got you caught at it....but other then that....no big deal.

And thats from a person-person sort of thing. This is someone hating you.

Take it to a unrestricted global level. The only amazing thing is that most of the hacks have had small consequences. But with governments increasingly unleashing it, and some truly powerful neural networking systems, we could see this as the age where network security was forced to vastly change as security became paramount.
Y2K was a prelude to the hysteria that could result from a significant cyber attack.
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Old 01-01-2017, 07:15 AM
 
Location: Home is Where You Park It
23,856 posts, read 13,768,486 times
Reputation: 15482
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post

What if...someone completely owned google. Someone careful, and could:
See every search you made, every email you sent or received, and every password you used, or attempted to use.
Someone does own google. And that someone does everything it can to watch your behavior online. And sells that information about your behavior to others.

I don't use google directly - not its search engine, nor its browser, nor its email service. I used to use IXQuick for searches, now I use DuckDuckGo. I don't understand why more people don't.

If google wants to use my information, they can pay me for it. (I get that there is little real privacy online. Still, why make it simple to them?)

Several years ago, there was a way to "look up" who google thought you were. According to them, google thought I was a young male techie. I'm not.

Last edited by jacqueg; 01-01-2017 at 07:54 AM..
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Old 01-01-2017, 07:43 AM
 
Location: Native of Any Beach/FL
35,736 posts, read 21,087,398 times
Reputation: 14260
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaldoKitty View Post
Can't hack something that isn't connected to a network. For example voting machines.

Can't hack anything that doesn't run software or software is burned onto unchangeable media. For example, electromechanical controls, older cars, simple appliances, land line telephones, etc.

Can't hack something that is designed to be impossible to hack. For example an IBM Mainframe. This is why vast majority of banks keep their ledgers on these kinds of systems. They can't be hacked.

Can't hack processes that involve real paper documents being moved, endorsed and handled the old fashioned way. This would include house and auto sales in most states, death certificates, real currency and paper bonds.

You must live in the mountains? or the woods?

Alex Halderman, professor Andrew Appel decided to hack into a voting machine who could pick the machine’s lock in seven seconds.
How to Hack an Election in 7 Minutes - POLITICO Magazine

A phreak is someone who breaks into the telephone network illegally, to tap phone lines. The term is now sometimes used to include anyone who breaks or tries to break the security of any network.
Landlines were hacked into by physically connecting through terminal boxes and cables either locally or at the exchanges. The land lines are hardly secure. The tool transfers recordings of voicemails and messages and to special website where that data can be can picked up. The software to run it can be downloaded to the phone via Bluetooth or WiFi, but permission for access is required to agree to the download.

Simply put: mainframes are neither obsolete nor unhackable.Yes Virginia, You CAN Hack a Mainframe

https://www.tripwire.com/state-of-se...son-no-really/


And last unless you are keeping all your hard copies or docts in your basement yea- maybe, if no-one breaks in, but if sharing with another office, FED EX -mail- UPS all can be intercepted and IS.

NOT safe- and there is NO old fashion way anymore-- tell me besides the old lady down the street that never comes out -- still holding on to the OLD fashion ways?
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Old 01-01-2017, 07:45 AM
 
45,244 posts, read 26,477,444 times
Reputation: 25001
Sounds like what the NSA is doing to all of us.
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Old 01-01-2017, 08:51 AM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,088,087 times
Reputation: 17865
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post

Many use the same password everywhere. (BTW stop that, it will only end badly). Could they try that everywhere?
Your password is encrypted on the server(or at least it should be), they key to decrypt is the password itself hence the reason no site can tell you what your password is. It would be trivial matter for the site owner or someone who has hacked into the server that can inject code into scripts to get it.

The reason it is encrypted is in case the database is stolen. If a hacker were to obtain the user table for this site the first thing they are going to do is run a dictionary attack against the passwords;123456, qwerty, password etc. If I recall correctly that will net them about 10% of the users.

The encryption method for passwords on a site like this may not be the most secure and that is usually a consideration for server performance. It's not a trivial thing to break but with enough computing power it could be brute forced.

They now have an associated password ,username and email address. The next stop is your email account where they can try the password. If they get into your email account they can obtain information such as what bank you might use..... off to the bank to try the password there.


---------------

As to your general comments these large companies in particular Google and the ISP's have a huge amount of data on you. It's very much a concern.
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Old 01-01-2017, 09:05 AM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,088,087 times
Reputation: 17865
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaldoKitty View Post
Can't hack something that isn't connected to a network. For example voting machines.
The "air gap" is a challenge but no guarantee of anything. The problem is devices such as laptops and USB sticks etc. That Iranian facility with their centrifuges was 100% isolated, Stuxnet was brought across the air gap by someone working there possibly an engineering firm etc.

As far as the voting booths go there should be paper trail and the results on the paper should be displayed to you prior to leaving the booth. Randomly audit X percentage of machines..
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