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Old 09-19-2016, 09:50 AM
 
Location: Houston
26,979 posts, read 15,990,689 times
Reputation: 11259

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Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
So silly, yes, all of it, beginning with Sowell's premise, yet we all "swallow hook, line and sinker."

The common conservative straw man argument is something like this one as Sowell starts...

"If there were a contest for the most stupid idea in politics, my choice would be the assumption that people would be evenly or randomly distributed in incomes, institutions, occupations or awards, in the absence of somebody doing somebody wrong."

Yes, a most stupid idea, but who thinks the idea is other than stupid? Who really thinks that people would somehow be "evenly or randomly distributed" when it comes to all the countless ways we either succeed or don't, regardless what wrongs are done to us?

Whenever you read women, blacks, Hispanics, etc. make blank cents on a dollar compared to white males the inference is that this is a problem and something must be done with it. It suggests that all the difference in wages is due to sexism, racism or xenophobia. Nothing could be further from the truth.


Newsflash: It ain't an irrational fear to be wary of Muslim immigration from troubled parts of the world. Had an incident just yesterday.
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Old 09-19-2016, 09:53 AM
 
29,783 posts, read 9,979,361 times
Reputation: 3509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cape Cod Todd View Post
Why can't a girl play chess at champion levels? Well in the real world she can if she is good enough to compete.
I'd like to play ball for the NE Patriots but being a middle age guy I'm out of luck.
Step one is really to get the cause and effect of these types of results right in the first place...

(PhysOrg.com) -- In the recorded history of chess, world champions have always been male, not female. Further, there is currently only one woman in the top 100 chess players in the world. Because chess is often considered to be the ultimate intellectual activity, male dominance at chess is often cited as an example of innate male intellectual superiority. But rather than resort to biological or cultural explanations, a recent study proposes a different explanation.

A team of researchers from the UK has shown that the under-representation of women at the top end in chess is almost exactly what would be expected, given the much greater number of men that participate in the game at all. Researchers Merim Bilalic, et al., have published their research on this statistical sampling explanation in a recent issue of the Proceedings of the Royal Society B.

Read more at: Why Men Rank Higher than Women at Chess (It's Not Biological)

Similarly, there was a time when most American males didn't ever play soccer, so obviously there were far fewer champion American soccer players. Would this suggest at the time that Americans were somehow innately not good at soccer? Was also a time when black athletes were nowhere to be found on the baseball field or football field, only white guys. Would this at the time suggest that blacks were not as good as whites in these fields? Regardless the reasons for nonrepresentation, clearly when there is nonrepresentation, so too will be the nonrespresentation at the top. Even after those barriers were eroded away, was a time when there were no black team coaches, or woman in higher ranks of office...

These things take time (and maybe some better critical thinking), but giving up on playing for the Patriots is probably the intelligent thing to do all considered...
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Old 09-19-2016, 10:02 AM
 
29,783 posts, read 9,979,361 times
Reputation: 3509
Quote:
Originally Posted by whogo View Post
Whenever you read women, blacks, Hispanics, etc. make blank cents on a dollar compared to white males the inference is that this is a problem and something must be done with it. It suggests that all the difference in wages is due to sexism, racism or xenophobia. Nothing could be further from the truth.


Newsflash: It ain't an irrational fear to be wary of Muslim immigration from troubled parts of the world. Had an incident just yesterday.
There it is again! In bold above...

The premise or argument that ALL the difference is due to (fill in the blank). Of course there is no ONE problem or wrong that accounts for ALL these differences, and yes of course there are exceptions to the rule. A black man can even become POTUS if he puts his mind to it...

Newsflash: this does NOT mean the statistics don't clearly point to formidable challenges, problems and wrongs that certain classes of people experience that others don't, like minorities that have experienced prejudice all their lives, or immigrants viewed as a problem by nationalists (generally older white male nationalists).

Somewhere is that fine balance between what is rational and/or irrational, largely dependent on one's OBJECTIVE critical thinking skills...
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Old 09-19-2016, 10:09 AM
 
29,783 posts, read 9,979,361 times
Reputation: 3509
Quote:
Originally Posted by RCCCB View Post
The country is developing a lack of shame and are attracting some immigrants who also have less shame when they all jump on the social programs or the over-paid government make-work welfare jobs.

People need shame to know embarrassment so they adhere to a code of conduct that exceeds tyrants around the world.

If you are able bodied, refuse to work and are not feeling shame, then you are defective IMO.
I used to work/volunteer for the Food Bank, and I have also worked with people suddenly out of work, sometimes needing to turn to such social services, and typically I have I sensed a little TOO much shame expressed by these people for being in those circumstances, drawing on those resources (even though they may have even previously paid into the tax funds that finance those programs).

Again another contender for the straw man argument, that people at the bottom of the economic ladder, perhaps drawing on social services, are somehow exuding pride rather than shame when all around them they see people doing better than they are. Yes, those people in the soup line look real proud...

People coming to believe and/or making these sorts of arguments might be the ones who need to feel a little more shame if you ask me...
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Old 09-19-2016, 01:13 PM
 
27,306 posts, read 16,330,831 times
Reputation: 12104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
How about a contest for the biggest strawman?
I'll bring a match.


Sowell is right.
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Old 09-19-2016, 01:17 PM
 
Location: Houston
26,979 posts, read 15,990,689 times
Reputation: 11259
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
There it is again! In bold above...

The premise or argument that ALL the difference is due to (fill in the blank). Of course there is no ONE problem or wrong that accounts for ALL these differences, and yes of course there are exceptions to the rule. A black man can even become POTUS if he puts his mind to it...
I am glad you agree with that.


Many of the reasons for the "gender gap" are detailed right here:


Gender pay gap: The familiar line that “women make 77 cents to every man’s dollar” simply isn’t accurate.



Now what is Sowell speaking of in his article?:


Obama’s 77-Cent Exaggeration


From that link:


A TV spot from the president’s reelection committee says women are “paid 77 cents on the dollar for doing the same work as men.” That’s not true. The ad falsely states that the pay gap is for doing “the same work.” It also implies that discrimination by employers is responsible for the difference.


Of course Bernie is in on the lies:


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...earned-by-men/


Typical liberal BS:


https://www.bing.com/images/search?q...9o0&ajaxhist=0

Last edited by whogo; 09-19-2016 at 01:45 PM..
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Old 09-19-2016, 01:25 PM
 
Location: alexandria, VA
16,344 posts, read 8,170,117 times
Reputation: 9726
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake View Post
Let me introduce you to Rosie Odonnell.
Damn. Now that's funny.
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Old 09-19-2016, 01:52 PM
 
8,275 posts, read 8,004,744 times
Reputation: 12122
Quote:
Originally Posted by MPowering1 View Post
Good article. I've noticed there's a serious shortage of female sumo wrestlers, myself.
You've clearly never been to The Golden Corral.
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Old 09-20-2016, 11:35 AM
 
29,783 posts, read 9,979,361 times
Reputation: 3509
Quote:
Originally Posted by whogo View Post
I am glad you agree with that.
I'm not sure you know what I am agreeing to or not...

I won't get into all the right or wrong about the numbers sited by Obama and many others who are concerned about certain obvious issues related to who is getting paid what and why. I most certainly believe there are many issues that determine whether someone is successful (or not), and a good many have to do with problems "protected classes" have encountered for a long time now, including racism, bigotry, xenophobia and all the rest going back a long time in America's history.

Are these problems behind us yet? I really don't think so.

Can anyone really measure the extent to which women and/or minorities are successful (or not) due to pure merit versus these other problems related to domination and rule by white males (prejudice, sexism and racism) for so long? Very hard to do...

Do these "protected classes" and/or minorities still have these problems to contend with and/or overcome in order to succeed in what is still pretty much a white male dominated world, work place, economy? Yes. I think the evidence is pretty much overwhelming, especially when you look at which group is best represented at the highest levels of power, wealth and influence.

Under 20 percent of our representatives in Congress, for example, are women. Hard to explain given that women represent about half of all Americans. Just as one example...

It isn't just about equal pay. It's also about getting to those places of higher pay and responsibility, all the way to the top (where white males still dominate as a rule today). Or maybe we older white guys are really special that way, better..., right?
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