Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Location: Lots of sun and palm trees with occasional hurricane :)
8,293 posts, read 16,224,996 times
Reputation: 7018
Advertisements
Quote:
Originally Posted by Upton
"Beautiful and free"? Is that what Cuba was under US recognized dictator Batista? Oh, he was amenable to US interests, but human rights were a different matter.
You are correct but by comparison, it was free. It has always been beautiful. Not even Castro, who has destroyed not only Cuba's people, but the island itself and depleted it of all its natural resources, can take away its natural beauty.
Last edited by vpcats; 02-19-2008 at 08:55 AM..
Reason: typo
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
68,444 posts, read 55,001,668 times
Reputation: 40969
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank_Carbonni
Castro and Che also killed more people in the first three years than Pinochet did in his 17. Castro is a piece of s--t through and through.
So is there some number of politically motivated murders that's acceptable? A number that makes some scum like Pinochet not a POS and eligible for US backing? Or a real shining example like Suharto, who by comparison makes Castro look like one of the world's most benevolent leaders, yet I don't seem to recall him being ostracized by the US.
There may be any number of reasons why the US hops in bed with world leaders but humanitarian ones usually aren't at the top of the list. They certainly don't explain our dealings with China, Libya, Indonesia, Saudi Arabia, etc., etc., etc.............................
I'd be curious to know more about how Cuba's other neighbors -- Bahamas, U.S. Virgin Islands, Puerto Rico, Trinidad/Tobago, Dominica -- get along with Cuba.
I see this as a wonderful oppurtunity for the US to establish friendly relations with our close neighbor Cuba and the Cuban people. It is one of those moments, that only come every once in awhile. We have relationship with China and with the military dictatorship of Pakistan and we even had friendly relationship with Sadaam Hussein during the time we have maintained hostility with Cuba! If Castro was the obstacle......Now Is The Time. Carpe Diem.
I only hope that we have a new President who can capitalize on this oppurtunity and who isn't frozen into the old ways of thinking and blowing upon the embers of hatred and distrust for political advantage. It is important that we have a leader who can lead.
"Yes We Can" establish close ties with this neighbor. Carpe Diem.
So is there some number of politically motivated murders that's acceptable? A number that makes some scum like Pinochet not a POS and eligible for US backing? Or a real shining example like Suharto, who by comparison makes Castro look like one of the world's most benevolent leaders, yet I don't seem to recall him being ostracized by the US.
There may be any number of reasons why the US hops in bed with world leaders but humanitarian ones usually aren't at the top of the list. They certainly don't explain our dealings with China, Libya, Indonesia, Saudi Arabia, etc., etc., etc.............................
Castro is garbage and you know it. The only reason why you are slyly excusing him (I see what you are doing) is because you are probably a Leftist. You haven't stated it so far, but I'm willing to bet on it.
Castro is completely indefensible. He promised a politically neutral and pro-democratic government after winning the revolution and broke that promise, he has stolen hundreds of millions from his people, he lives a life of luxury while the Cuban economy has stagnated, he sold out his own countrymen to the Soviet Union, he murdered thousands of political opponents, and sent thousands to political prisons. He was even deeply homophobic--homosexuals were sent to Mariel because he considered them undesirable--until just a few years ago, which he probably reversed the policy and his rhetoric because it wouldn't be too fashionable for all the fawning "progressive" celebrities to be seen with a man who locks gays up for years. The only way to defend him is to do it in a sneaky way, by bringing up every scumbag and tyrant the US ever had connections with.
You are also assuming that I'm apologetic towards Batista or Pinochet. I am not. I had no love for Pinochet and if I lived in Chile, there is a strong likelihood that I would have been a political prisoner, possibly even met the same fate as the 3,000-7,000 people that were killed by his regime. Batista was a petty thug, not an evil mastermind, just a greedy bastard who misused public funds and had his own band of privately hired goons to break the heads of anyone who spoke out against him. I have no respect for Batista and little for Pinochet.
I'm going to say that is that the people who always stomp their feet about how the US does business with this dictator or that dictator are always the same people who clamor for the end of the embargo. The same people who complain that the US rarely accepts political refuges from its allies, are the same people who write off Castro opposition as a bunch of hotheads in Miami. The same people cry crocodile tears about how America not letting more poor people migrate to the United States are the same people who call economic refugees from Cuba, "greedy". Castro gets a pass for some odd reason.
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
68,444 posts, read 55,001,668 times
Reputation: 40969
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank_Carbonni
Castro is garbage and you know it. The only reason why you are slyly excusing him (I see what you are doing) is because you are probably a Leftist. You haven't stated it so far, but I'm willing to bet on it.
Put your $$ up, you lose, I'm a realist.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank_Carbonni
I'm going to say that is that the people who always stomp their feet about how the US does business with this dictator or that dictator are always the same people who clamor for the end of the embargo. The same people who complain that the US rarely accepts political refuges from its allies, are the same people who write off Castro opposition as a bunch of hotheads in Miami. The same people cry crocodile tears about how America not letting more poor people migrate to the United States are the same people who call economic refugees from Cuba, "greedy". Castro gets a pass for some odd reason.
Castro gets a pass? You make that sound like he's the only one. How do you explain all the others who get/have gotten a pass? All I'm saying is that US policy is so inconsistent that it's laughable and doesn't really merit the word policy, crap-shoot would be closer to reality.
I just call our policy towards Cuba stupid. Someone gets caught 50 yards offshore and they're returned to Cuba yet get their feet on dry land and they're allowed to stay? Puhleeeeze. That's BS.
Castro gets a pass? You make that sound like he's the only one. How do you explain all the others who get/have gotten a pass? All I'm saying is that US policy is so inconsistent that it's laughable and doesn't really merit the word policy, crap-shoot would be closer to reality.
I just call our policy towards Cuba stupid. Someone gets caught 50 yards offshore and they're returned to Cuba yet get their feet on dry land and they're allowed to stay? Puhleeeeze. That's BS.
What kind of Realist?
Castro gets a pass from a lot of people. I already mentioned how there is always that one person who won't shut up about Pinochet and United Fruit, but always makes it sound like Castro is some great liberator.
Yes, the US policy is stupid, they should be allowed to say.
I hope we can get beyond the potential to re-invent our isolation of Cuba and the need to review all our foriegn policy disasters, and respond creatively and inteligently to this oppurtunity.
Let us establish some type of diplomatic ties with Cuba and re-consider how to re-establish economic, cultural and familial ties with the people of Cuba.
Lifting the blockade on essential goods would be a good start, and the return of Guantanamo would be another significant gesture of good will.
The wet foot dry foot is no more justifiable for Cubans than for Hatians or for Mexicans, or Chinese; IMHO. Either we have an immigration policy that is fair and equitable or we just give up!
El Maximo steps down, but retains a bunch of titles. I suspect he will still pull a few strings from the sidelines. Caudillo Emeritus, that has a nice ring to it.
Communism is always a bit harder to get rid of when its home grown rather than being imposed. Think of Yugoslavia which, as evidenced by events in Kosovo this past Sunday, still has a chapter or two left. I suspect Cuba will sputter along.
As for Batsita vs Castro, they were or are both goons. The US backed Batista and we should not feel proud of that. And the USSR/Russia, Europe, Canada and Venezuela have, one way or the other, backed Castro over the years and should all feel a bit of shame.
Its long past time the Cubans had self-determination.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
