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Old 01-19-2008, 03:54 PM
 
20,184 posts, read 23,965,913 times
Reputation: 9284

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We all know we are in a very bad economy right now with the housing problems, stock market, and companies in a lot of financial problems and very large impending layoffs as a result. The government is trying to "infuse" taxpayers with what they call a relief fund and with this fund they are trying to do this "In a statement on the economy delivered Friday morning, President Bush said any plan should feature "direct and rapid income tax relief" to boost consumer spending." I bolded the important part. Now I understand that the economy is falling because a lot of Americans that "traditionally" carry lots of debt continue to add onto that debt but cannot add any more now. So the government is trying to get you to "spend" and spend more so that you will go into debt to help the economy. Is it a good idea to base the economy on how much debt a person has? I feel like we are beating a dead horse.

Tax rebates: Where's your check - Jan. 18, 2008
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Old 01-19-2008, 04:00 PM
 
Location: Near Manito
20,169 posts, read 24,441,415 times
Reputation: 15297
Sorry, but I must have missed where the President told us the rebate was to be used for people to go into debt. Can you explain how "spending" = "debt"?

I mean, isn't the decision to go into debt based on creating the illusion that one is not spending?

Clear this up for us, will you? Thanks.
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Old 01-19-2008, 04:06 PM
 
20,184 posts, read 23,965,913 times
Reputation: 9284
The idea is that they give $800 to spend and you spend it BUT you don't stop spending... considering they want you to spend more and most people don't have any more money to spend, they want you to go into debt. If you spent the $800 and NOTHING else.. then their plan failed. Most people don't have an extra 200 or 300 to spend afterwards... they want you to keep spending ... you can only spend so much before going to debt (i.e. credit cards)...
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Old 01-19-2008, 04:13 PM
 
4,409 posts, read 6,159,190 times
Reputation: 2908
What I don't understand is how is this money from tax relief REAL money? Sounds more like a loan. We still have to pay our debts, don't we? Isn't a tax cut just a deferral?

By the way, an extra $300 is NOT going to make my job secure or stop my home from losing value. An extra $300,000 for the wealthy isn't going to help me or the millions like me one bit when all they seem to do is waste it on luxury items. And an extra $300,000,000 for big business won't do any of us any good when they have no allegiance to the American worker.
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Old 01-19-2008, 04:19 PM
 
Location: Near Manito
20,169 posts, read 24,441,415 times
Reputation: 15297
Quote:
Originally Posted by evilnewbie View Post
The idea is that they give $800 to spend and you spend it BUT you don't stop spending... considering they want you to spend more and most people don't have any more money to spend, they want you to go into debt. If you spent the $800 and NOTHING else.. then their plan failed. Most people don't have an extra 200 or 300 to spend afterwards... they want you to keep spending ... you can only spend so much before going to debt (i.e. credit cards)...
I'm sorry, but that makes no sense at all. If someone gives me $800, why would I want to spend more than what I was given -- unless I chose to go into debt? And why would I do that? I'm not a fool...
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Old 01-19-2008, 04:31 PM
 
20,184 posts, read 23,965,913 times
Reputation: 9284
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeledaf View Post
I'm sorry, but that makes no sense at all. If someone gives me $800, why would I want to spend more than what I was given -- unless I chose to go into debt? And why would I do that? I'm not a fool...
Well the government is hoping you are the fool and choose to go into debt. They are not giving it out of the kindness of their sweet little hearts. They WANT you to spend and keep spending but the smarter person would save it. I am not telling you what to do, the governments wants you to spend it and more but I wouldn't either. If they could, they would "force" you to spend more than what was given but that is incredibly hard to do and very transparent about their true motives...

Last edited by evilnewbie; 01-19-2008 at 04:51 PM..
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Old 01-19-2008, 11:56 PM
 
Location: Near Manito
20,169 posts, read 24,441,415 times
Reputation: 15297
Quote:
Originally Posted by evilnewbie View Post
Well the government is hoping you are the fool and choose to go into debt. They are not giving it out of the kindness of their sweet little hearts. They WANT you to spend and keep spending but the smarter person would save it. I am not telling you what to do, the governments wants you to spend it and more but I wouldn't either. If they could, they would "force" you to spend more than what was given but that is incredibly hard to do and very transparent about their true motives...
Well, you lost me there, Evil. I guess I have a hard time dislking policies which involve handing me eight hundred bucks.
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Old 01-20-2008, 12:41 AM
 
20,403 posts, read 20,084,587 times
Reputation: 13519
I know I can be trusted to put 800 clams, that was mine to begin with, to wise use.
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Old 01-20-2008, 02:08 AM
 
309 posts, read 368,272 times
Reputation: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by evilnewbie View Post
We all know we are in a very bad economy right now with the housing problems, stock market, and companies in a lot of financial problems and very large impending layoffs as a result. The government is trying to "infuse" taxpayers with what they call a relief fund and with this fund they are trying to do this "In a statement on the economy delivered Friday morning, President Bush said any plan should feature "direct and rapid income tax relief" to boost consumer spending." I bolded the important part. Now I understand that the economy is falling because a lot of Americans that "traditionally" carry lots of debt continue to add onto that debt but cannot add any more now. So the government is trying to get you to "spend" and spend more so that you will go into debt to help the economy. Is it a good idea to base the economy on how much debt a person has? I feel like we are beating a dead horse.

Tax rebates: Where's your check - Jan. 18, 2008
Evil,

Personally, I understand what you are getting at and you are right when you say "we are beating a dead horse" but like others here have noted.......
This country is in desperate NEED of DECENT jobs that pay a decent and livable wage.....with job security for the masses!

THIS reality is not even really discussed by Bush's plan of a "shot in the arm" to "boost" the economy by offering a tax rebate in dire hopes that consumer spending of this rebate would actually do just that.
Yeah, maybe for a VERY brief moment retail sales would improve, or some bills might get paid that otherwise would not........but it IS a band-aid to a massive, gaping wound within the American economy, IMO!

It does NOTHING in the long run and after the dust settles from a collapse in the RE Market, personal debt, slow to 'nil job growth, rising fuel costs, health care costs, insurance, property taxes, lack of mfg. jobs, layoffs, and a rapid rate of inflation on basic staples EVERYONE NEEDS........nope, it does not help much at all, but MOST people will gladly take a rebate for ANY amount right now!

Sad it is though.......that a LOT of people are going to get a tax rebate who already make or have, plenty of money and DON'T NEED it nearly as much as a VERY large segment of society that IS really struggling just to keep from being homeless!

But, hey.......don't forget that we as a nation, are still "obligated" to send BILLIONS of dollars in foreign aid to a lot of other poor countries (with very corrupt governments)....... around the world and continue funding a WAR with no true END in sight.......and
WE as a nation, are still very obligated and commited to the continuation of fuding a multi-BILLION DOLLAR "War" on Drugs and the BILLIONS more to continue the funding of more prisons, county jails and guarding those nearly 3 MILLION prisoners too........all in spite of the fact that its only a very expensive continuation of the "status quo" and drugs remain readily available EVERYWHERE in America.....after 35 years of "zero tolerance" and its associated CORRUPTION!
Americans HAVE had to take a back seat to these and many other "worthy causes" and massive Government spending / programs for a long time and should be used to it by now.

And.....it NEVER really has mattered IF it was a Republican OR a Democrat in the White House, either, IMO!
Career Senators and Congressmen.....who NEVER accomplish ANYTHING and sit on their lazy ashes...tend to be the BIGGEST problem and the corporations who lobby them......neither of which....truly gives a damn about the average American citizen and haven't in many, many years!

If this 145 BILLION DOLLAR "tax rebate" is anything.......its charity and a desperate measure for this administration to TRY and go out as quietly and with as little resentment as it possibly can by the end of '08....and it too.........is only a VIVID REALITY check......as to just how bad the Federal Chairman and many other economists believe the US to be in DEEP shiit!
A DAY LATE and a DOLLAR SHORT...........and too far gone now!
THIS recession WILL likely be the worst one in decades and last a lot longer, IMO!
So, they can go right ahead and send those rebates....overnight 'em Fed Ex....doubt very many people will complain with a check in the mail from Uncle Sam......or anyone else right now!
But like the old saying goes......."The road to Hell was paved with GOOD intentions."

Last edited by Skytripper; 01-20-2008 at 02:30 AM..
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Old 01-20-2008, 09:34 AM
 
Location: Dubuque Metro, Iowa
209 posts, read 1,093,062 times
Reputation: 134
Let's all move to Canada!
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