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For those who support Obama and Obamacare you've been told but ignored or refused to listen. Healthcare "Insurance" is different than actual healthcare. Now hospitals are cutting budgets and laying off nurses which will of course result in poorer care. I worked in hospitals when dems tried pushing Hillarycare and saw the resulting actions by hospitals and it wasn't good. On a side note, I remember when Hillary said nurses were under educated and over paid.
This time it will be much worse. Anyone who was paying for your healthcare insurance or getting insurance through work, Obama supporters screwed you. Only this time it is your health and could be your life.
For those who support Obama and Obamacare you've been told but ignored or refused to listen.
Told yes, provided evidence...no. There is one thing to be told something, and another to have something proved to you. If I tell you I have a dog you can see evidence of it (dog hairs on my shirt, see pictures, dog food bags, vet bills, the actual dog)...if I say I have a giant pink insivible unicorn that has no proof, would you really believe me without evidence?
If you want to believe things that have no evidence, feel free. Most people have more honesty than that.
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Originally Posted by petch751
Healthcare "Insurance" is different than actual healthcare
How can you get health care if you can't afford it?
How does it help if it gets so bad you need emergency care, where they can't turn people away, and you end up bankrupt?
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Originally Posted by petch751
Now hospitals are cutting budgets and laying off nurses which will of course result in poorer care.
Proof this is happening, and a result of the ACA?
Quote:
Originally Posted by petch751
I worked in hospitals when dems tried pushing Hillarycare and saw the resulting actions by hospitals and it wasn't good. On a side note, I remember when Hillary said nurses were under educated and over paid.
More claims without proof, can you provide something?
Why would businesses change how they do business based on the hint of a law?
Quote:
Originally Posted by petch751
This time it will be much worse. Anyone who was paying for your healthcare insurance or getting insurance through work, Obama supporters screwed you. Only this time it is your health and could be your life.
For those who support Obama and Obamacare you've been told but ignored or refused to listen. Healthcare "Insurance" is different than actual healthcare.
I hear people talk about ACA as "government ran healthcare", but those statements are always coming from those who oppose ACA. Even GOP lawmakers do not seem to undaratand the difference. Did you open this thread because you just recently learned the difference?
If you want to believe things that have no evidence, feel free. Most people have more honesty than that.
Good point, and what really seems to confuse right-wingers is the fact that their claims require proof that the trends they point out wouldn't have occurred in the absence of the impetus they allege as motivator of the trend. For example, hospitals have been cutting nurses for decades. I remember 25 years ago my young cousin deciding to become an LPN, because at that time hospitals were looking to substantially reduce the value of the work RNs did, by undercutting the demand for nurses by getting the rules change to allow LPNs to perform far more of the roles that used to be the purview of RNs exclusively. This push to cost-cut the provision of healthcare is not new, and there is no evidence indicating that it has been affected one way or the other by ACA.
My issue with the ACA, as a supporter of Single-Payer, is that it doesn't address costs. The ACA works to ensure everyone is insured...great...but that doesn't make treatment cost less. To me ACA is just as bad a solution as not having the ACA because people look at it as "reformed healthcare" but it really does nothing but line the pockets of Insurance companies and subsidize them all the while doing nothing to address the real problems associated with rising healthcare costs.
There are about 6000 hospitals in the U.S. How many hospitals have been laying off nurses? What are their names and locations?
There has been and continues to be an acute shortage of nurses in some areas. Rather than compete for a scare resource, many hospitals increasingly delegate routine day-to day care to techs who work under the supervision of an RN. This is no different than medical practices delegating patient care to Physician Assistants (PAs), Nurse Practitioners (NPs) and techs. These changes have been ongoing for the past decade.
What hospitals have not done is to erode the compensation of non MD senior management. It's a bidding war in some areas.
Healthcare insurance costs more in the U.S. because healthcare costs more than it does elsewhere, regardless of the exchange rate. The majority of this cost is rooted in hospitals, outpatient services, medications and medical equipment, all substantially represented by powerful lobbies. Then there is the factor of something like 2/3 of all adults are overweight and have more health issues than most people do elsewhere.
How does one object to the costs of U.S. healthcare and at the same time resist the evolution of healthcare efficiencies? Or perhaps it's Monday and an inner need to manufacture outrage about something.
Wow, Emerald sure got very defensive, right off the bat. Interesting.
You're absolutely right, petch. Insurance and care are not interchangeable terms, but everyone on the wrong side of the aisle sure loves to use them in that way.
I'd posit that at higher levels, it's because it helps to solidify them as the same thing, which is crucial to them being able to eventually push through some sort of single payer system. As long as people see actual care (i.e. services rendered) as separate from the payment mechanism, a single payer system is going to be a much harder sell than it would be if payment and care were seen as part of the same system. A single transaction, if you will, instead of two separate ones.
At lower levels (i.e. blowhards like those here on c-d), it's because that how those at higher levels phrase it. They're just being good little soldiers, doing exactly what they've been trained to do, and they're "just following orders." They don't know any better or different.
My issue with the ACA, as a supporter of Single-Payer, is that it doesn't address costs.
That's like opposing Lipitor because it doesn't prevent heart attacks. It makes no sense to grant the benefits that something does offer (in the case of ACA, making health coverage affordable for many Americans who couldn't afford healthcare previously) because it doesn't offer you what you want, or otherwise doesn't fulfill other objectives that you would have preferred it have pursued instead of what it actually pursued.
I worked in hospitals when dems tried pushing Hillarycare and saw the resulting actions by hospitals and it wasn't good.
Your memory is flawed. The bill never passed Senate, so hospitals did nothing to react to it. The healthcare industry ran ads and campaigned against it but there were no hospital level changes.
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I remember when Hillary said nurses were under educated and over paid.
Your memory is flawed. She never said that. Produce a link.
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