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Now just a minute here, sonny! There are a number of us "aging hippies" who are still liberals. I sure as heck remember that speech, even though I was 8 1/2 months pregnant at the time and very busy with my own personal life. (Also had a 3 yo.)
I do think some cons are stuck in the cold war, though.
actually we are "stuck" in the revolutionary war, the founders vision of freedom. The cold war was just an episode in the ongoing quest for freedom. I don't know that the Cold War ever fully ended, anyway. We just elected a self-described "Marxist" to the Seattle City Council. She wants to nationalize Boeing, and to be able to confiscate the wealth of Seattle tech millionaires in order to close the city's budget deficit.
Huh? My post didn't even reference Reagan's 'tear down this wall' speech. I cited about 5 other factors. You still don't say what the single event was that led to the tearing down of the wall. Again, a bizarre form of argument. You say everyone else is wrong, that you know the right answer, but you won't say what it is.
PUI?????? I hope you are at least on the east coast, because here on the west coast it's still only 11:00AM sunday morning.
Read with comprehension. I didn't say there was a single event which changed everything. I mentioned two things:
1. The change came from within
2. There was an event which eventually led to the letting go of the wall
The change from within began when Gorbachev initiated fundamental changes to the way communist USSR had been ran. It was called 'perestroika', and it was followed by 'glasnost' and those policies set the course for the end of the USSR, because they gave the keys to freedom the people of USSR and the entire eastern block. It destroyed the foundation of the communist, which had been 100% control of the population and the economy.
Those changes also opened the door to the event which brought down the wall, which was Hungary disabling the border fences at their Austrian border. This would not have been possible under the iron rule of the former USSR. That action rendered the Berlin Wall meaningless, because now the East Germans could simply use Hungarian crossing to get out of East Germany, and within a month (Sept 1989) thousands of East Germans did exactly that. Soon after (November) East Germany announced that "borders are open to everyone".
To credit the fall of USSR and the Berlin Wall to few speeches made by an American president is fairy ignorant.
Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 11-17-2013 at 01:12 PM..
Your absurd revisionism is easily refuted by one simple data point. When Reagan started talking about SDI, AKA 'Star Wars,' (an idea that Reagan himself proposed after watching a talk by physicist Edward Teller) Gorbachev reacted with alarm and loathing. US liberaldom reacted with contempt and loathing. Ted Kennedy coined the 'Star Wars' sobriquet in an effort to belittle the idea. It didn't really work--Star Wars had been one of the most popular movies of all time. GORBACHEV, DEMANDING CHANGE ON 'STAR WARS,' BARS SUMMIT TALK NOW - NYTimes.com
I recall as a young naïve college student being puzzled at this juxtaposition. US liberal academia trotted out one egghead expert after another to scoff at 'Star Wars,' and to explain why it could never work. At the same time Gorby was frantically trying to nix the program. He spent most of his time at the Geneva summit trying to get Reagan to drop it. At Reykjavik, Gorby tried to get Reagan to agree to confining SDI research to lab-only, which he thought would effectively kill it.
SDI had nothing to do with the fall of the Soviet Union or the Berlin Wall. Cuba and North Korea have shown that, as long as the government continues its oppression, authoritative regimes can stay in power indefinitely-- even as they are effectively insolvent and their population starves. By the time Gorby came to power, the USSR was in a "malaise." The economy was no longer growing, debt was growing, food queues were long, and the Afghan War was an embarrassment. But the people of the USSR had already tolerated 70 years of "bad harvests." In spite of all these challenges, the USSR would have persisted without Gorby unintentionally destroying it from within.
The only thing keeping Communism alive in the Eastern Bloc was the guarantee that any rebellion would be crushed by the Soviet Union -- look at 1956 Hungary. Once it was clear that Gorby would not intervene, the Eastern Bloc states were destined to fall one by one. In the Soviet Union itself, Gorby created a new all-USSR legislature, and for the first time, a local RSFSR legislature. After the failed August 1991 coup when the CPSU lost all credibility, Gorby had already established the apparatus and bureaucracy that would take over and succeed him.
Actually this liberal can recall every detail of crossing through East Germany, going into Berlin, crossing through Checkpoint Charlie and entering East Berlin at the height of the Cold War.
Very few liberals are actual communists (Obama certainly isn't.) Most liberals, such as myself, consider the Soviet-style communism to be one of the most evil, brutal systems ever devised. I witnessed it. Up close and personal. (Including being detained on the East side because there had been an attempt to escape. Checkpoint Charlie was closed on the Eastern side when that happened. Two men died that day, trying to reach freedom. They were shot before they reached the river. A tragically common event.) Reagan had little to do with bringing the wall down. The rise of the Solidarity movement in Poland and the strength of a man named John Paul II did MUCH more than the speech-reader named Ronald Reagan.
Wow!
Lech Walesa sure is confused!
"I wonder whether today's Poland, Europe and world could look the same without president Reagan," Walesa said. "As a participant in those events, I must say that it's inconceivable." - See more at: Walesa Unveils Statue of Ronald Reagan in Warsaw | CNS News
Your homework assignment is to look up the word "leadership".
The only thing keeping Communism alive in the Eastern Bloc was the guarantee that any rebellion would be crushed by the Soviet Union -- look at 1956 Hungary. Once it was clear that Gorby would not intervene, the Eastern Bloc states were destined to fall one by one. In the Soviet Union itself, Gorby created a new all-USSR legislature, and for the first time, a local RSFSR legislature. After the failed August 1991 coup when the CPSU lost all credibility, Gorby had already established the apparatus and bureaucracy that would take over and succeed him.
Good to see at least some CD posters are aware of historical facts.
Many leftists in the US wanted the US to surrender to the Soviet Union during the 1980's.
I remember.
They try to deny it now.
Yep. They were wrong then but blame others for their beliefs. They think it's the fault of "somebody" not their ideology. Liberalism is a failure all across the board.
Yep. They were wrong then but blame others for their beliefs. They think it's the fault of "somebody" not their ideology. Liberalism is a failure all across the board.
liberalism is alive and well and growing stronger every year. Conservatism will soon be exactly where it belongs; in a shallow grave.
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There are a number of us "aging hippies" who are still liberals. I sure as heck remember that speech, even though I was 8 1/2 months pregnant at the time and very busy with my own personal life. (Also had a 3 yo.) 
