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The biggest single thing that could be done to drastically decrease the violence would be to End the Drug war.
But who's gonna win out? Big Pharma, Private Prisons, and Law Enforcement... or Poor People?
Money corrupts.
Legalize all drugs?
When it comes to the hard core stuff, the black market can and will undercut legalized drugs to meet the demand.
Most of the current generation that is addicted to heroin began their journey with prescription medications. Heroin is a better bang for the buck.
Seriously addicted people are not steady employees and most eventually become unemployed. Obtaining daily funding and scoring is the daily grind. Manipulating and stealing from friends, family and employers is common stuff. Friends and family tend to take the position that they do not want to report these crimes because they don't want to ruin someone's life. They dig their heels in and convince themselves that they have the power to snap the addict out of addiction. They are mistaken.
Rehab is BIG business. Rehab does not cure addiction. Sentencing an addict to rehab is usually the pause that refreshes while the addict make new connections. Most relapse shortly after they reenter the real world.
I have heard more than one hard core addict describe addiction as needing the fix the way normies need to take their next breath. The words continue to haunt me.
The only nations that have put a dent in drug trafficking and addiction are those who have taken the hardest line and impose serious consequences. They don't spend their money funding other nations to destroy crops. They don't spend their money on prisons. They don't spend their money on rehabs. They impose consequences and make drugs non negotiable.
In the U.S. we allow Big Pharma to spend $billions to lobby, influence Congress and protect their interests. I wonder if Congressmen rationalize it all as protecting jobs, or something.
[quote=residinghere2007;30988824]ITA. Glad to see that others also know that there are other cities with much higher murder rates than Chicago.
But the history of segregation in Chicago and the uncaring attitude as is portrayed below is the reason why shootings and murders are allowed to happen, mostly in only a couple of neighborhoods. There is no reason other than them not caring about black murder victims. If the city cared, they would go into those neighborhoods and surrounding ones and stop the violence with pinpoint precision.[/quote]
Segregation exists, everywhere.
Money is the great equalizer.
No one said "there goes the neighborhood" back when Walter Payton built his mansion in a lily white suburb. No white flight occurred. No one burned crosses on Michael Jordan's front lawn when he did the same, years later.
Gangs are an entirely different ball of wax and most definitely not limited to blacks or Chicago. Gang on gang violence is a way of life. Gang infested communities accept this way of life and tend to protect shooters. It's always someone's kid or nephew or brother, baby daddy or friend or connection. Fear of retaliation is a factor. Even offering financial awards for information leading to .... does not compel most to talk.
Gangs splinter every day. Gang members increasing will not abide by their gang's code. These are kids, not marksmen. They miss their target and take out an innocent. They have zero coping skills and no hope. They accept they will likely not live to turn 21. They have nothing to lose.
I am unaware of any police force, anywhere that has been successful in eliminating violence with pinpoint precision.
When it comes to the hard core stuff, the black market can and will undercut legalized drugs to meet the demand.
Which is why you make it illegal and harshly sentenced to traffic in black market drugs. If law enforcement would stop chasing down people with a medical condition they might actually manage to nab more than the slight fraction of illegal drugs that are being shipped into the country. Also, if users weren't consistently being sentenced to insanely harsh prison terms there would be more room in the prisons for the illegal dealers.
As it stands now, the Drug War is big money for big business and government. The 'legit' drug companies get to continue charging outrageous prices for medications, the government gets to impose harsh fines and confiscate personal property from users, and the corporate prisons rake in the cash and profit on the labor from all the users who are imprisoned.
Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom
Most of the current generation that is addicted to heroin began their journey with prescription medications. Heroin is a better bang for the buck.
At least you didn't blame marijuana. Probably the only part of your post I agree with, but at least it's something.
Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom
Seriously addicted people are not steady employees and most eventually become unemployed. Obtaining daily funding and scoring is the daily grind. Manipulating and stealing from friends, family and employers is common stuff. Friends and family tend to take the position that they do not want to report these crimes because they don't want to ruin someone's life. They dig their heels in and convince themselves that they have the power to snap the addict out of addiction. They are mistaken.
Seriously addicted people exist in all walks of life, just as hard core alcoholics do. Go to any AA meeting and look around. You'll be amazed at the diversity you see. There are seriously addicted people in every profession, some of whom have been in their profession for years if not decades. If you're going to paint everyone with the same brush, at least try to use a thinner brush to do it with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom
Rehab is BIG business. Rehab does not cure addiction. Sentencing an addict to rehab is usually the pause that refreshes while the addict make new connections. Most relapse shortly after they reenter the real world.
The numbers from the government drug abuse website disagree with you. In fact, recidivism rate for drug addiction is similar to that of most other behavior-related illnesses such as diabetes and hypertension. The percentage is between 40% and 60%, so the correct way to word that is "Rehab does not cure addiction, but it helps a lot of addicts to overcome their addiction."
I have heard more than one hard core addict describe addiction as needing the fix the way normies need to take their next breath. The words continue to haunt me.
As someone who dealt with addiction in the past, that description is spot on. However, as someone who overcame that addiction, I have to say that your general attitude of "once an addict, always an addict, and addicts are worthless" is slightly offensive. Addiction can be overcome, and addicts can be productive even while they are addicts. It is very dependent on the exact situation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom
The only nations that have put a dent in drug trafficking and addiction are those who have taken the hardest line and impose serious consequences. They don't spend their money funding other nations to destroy crops. They don't spend their money on prisons. They don't spend their money on rehabs. They impose consequences and make drugs non negotiable.
Portugal would disagree with you. In fact, since 2001 when Portugal made the decision to treat drug addiction as the medical condition that it truly is rather than following the previous policy of persecution and incarceration of drug addicts, they have seen their drug usage rates drop nearly in half.
Portugal's method is far more effective than the totalitarian governments' attempts to control drug use through the use of force and imprisonment. Why? Because their funding and effort goes toward education about the dangers of drug use and treatment for the drug addicts. The trafficking of drugs is still a criminal activity which results in extremely harsh sentences, but the use of drugs is no longer a criminal offense.
In the U.S. we allow Big Pharma to spend $billions to lobby, influence Congress and protect their interests. I wonder if Congressmen rationalize it all as protecting jobs, or something.
I agree that Big Pharma has too much influence, but for different reasons.
Exactly who do you think is behind the continued illegal status of many drugs? Many of the products manufactured by Big Pharma have side effects that are worse than the condition they are designed to treat. If people had the option of using marijuana to treat pain rather than taking the poisonous cocktails that are foisted off on them by the drug companies - many at exorbitant prices - Big Pharma would be losing a lot of money.
The community has simply collapsed as a functioning entity. Until the words of Bill Cosby & Don Lemon become the dominant ethos in these neighborhoods and are put into practice nothing will change much.
They're not likely to change anytime soon.
Not when they have armies of enablers & coddlers that will publicly ridicule anyone who disagrees with them as racists or traitors to the race.
No one said "there goes the neighborhood" back when Walter Payton built his mansion in a lily white suburb. No white flight occurred. No one burned crosses on Michael Jordan's front lawn when he did the same, years later.
Gangs are an entirely different ball of wax and most definitely not limited to blacks or Chicago. Gang on gang violence is a way of life. Gang infested communities accept this way of life and tend to protect shooters. It's always someone's kid or nephew or brother, baby daddy or friend or connection. Fear of retaliation is a factor. Even offering financial awards for information leading to .... does not compel most to talk.
Gangs splinter every day. Gang members increasing will not abide by their gang's code. These are kids, not marksmen. They miss their target and take out an innocent. They have zero coping skills and no hope. They accept they will likely not live to turn 21. They have nothing to lose.
I am unaware of any police force, anywhere that has been successful in eliminating violence with pinpoint precision.
Do you live in Chicago? It is one of the most segregated cities in the country and is very racially polarized. What I stated I meant it specifically for that city.
And in regards to housing, in some areas black people still face discrimination in buying homes in Chicago. A couple years ago a black comedian who was also a host of a nationally syndicated radio program attempted to buy a home in the Bridgeport area of Chicago and was essentially redlined in this day and age. He sued and received a settlement.
And you do not know if "white flight occurred" when Walter Payton moved into anyone's neighborhood. There may have well been we don't know. But I doubt neither he nor Michael Jordan would have received much backlash though since they were sport stars and seen as heroes by the city residents. The same cannot be said of other affluent black professionals who don't have fame to protect them.
When it comes to the hard core stuff, the black market can and will undercut legalized drugs to meet the demand.
Most of the current generation that is addicted to heroin began their journey with prescription medications. Heroin is a better bang for the buck.
Seriously addicted people are not steady employees and most eventually become unemployed. Obtaining daily funding and scoring is the daily grind. Manipulating and stealing from friends, family and employers is common stuff. Friends and family tend to take the position that they do not want to report these crimes because they don't want to ruin someone's life. They dig their heels in and convince themselves that they have the power to snap the addict out of addiction. They are mistaken.
Rehab is BIG business. Rehab does not cure addiction. Sentencing an addict to rehab is usually the pause that refreshes while the addict make new connections. Most relapse shortly after they reenter the real world.
I have heard more than one hard core addict describe addiction as needing the fix the way normies need to take their next breath. The words continue to haunt me.
The only nations that have put a dent in drug trafficking and addiction are those who have taken the hardest line and impose serious consequences. They don't spend their money funding other nations to destroy crops. They don't spend their money on prisons. They don't spend their money on rehabs. They impose consequences and make drugs non negotiable.
In the U.S. we allow Big Pharma to spend $billions to lobby, influence Congress and protect their interests. I wonder if Congressmen rationalize it all as protecting jobs, or something.
I believe rehab can work as well as drug education. We'll just have to disagree there. I also know people who have broken their addictions to hard drugs. I also know some who haven't.
I think as long as we're on a path to improve our addiction we're doing good. Our current method is wreaking havoc on some communities.
How was my argument a stawman? It's a well known fact that Chicago's primary tactic to lower killings has been to try to push for more gun laws both within Chicago and across the state and country.
I find it patently funny that most of the shootings are drug\gang related....and those drugs are illegal throughout the entire country yet find their way into the city....gun laws won't do anything the drug laws haven't failed to do.
Lastly, most studies credit abortion for a big drop in the national crime rate coupled with the end of the crack epidemic. However, please note that I'm not one of the people lambasting Chicagos total murder rate in some axe grinding attack over Obama or guns.
I'm the guy pointing out that Chicago is 2 different cities with vastly different murder rates and the people most affected by those higher murder rates have been sold out by their city and many of their community leaders.
Riddle me why Lincoln park has a murder rate 40x lower than a neighborhood just 3 miles away (austin)? Same gun laws....so what's different?
Come on you said it was the only thing being done. This is clearly not true.
Your opinion about gun laws are irrelevant to me. I don't care if you think they'll work or not. It wasn't the point of my post. Other people who live in Chicago disagree with your assesment
Most studies? LOL, I heard one study from those Freak economic guys about the abortion thing. I disagree.
I didn't say you were lambasting. I just pointed out that since those gun laws were enacted gun deaths have dropped a lot. Now I know you know that those gun laws had nothing to do with anything, but others disagree.
In terms of why different areas have higher gun violence, its demographics, its racism, its lack of opportunities, its access to deadly weapons, gangs, the drug trade, heck I have heard that lead exposure leads to violence in humans. Let's just say it is a lot of reasons.
But you got the gist of it. This is a thoroughly unequal country that craps on poor people, black people, non white people, single moms, poor urban areas in general and poor rural areas.
Funny how you call us nuts yet you believe criminals will obey the law...
really have you seen the number of firearms sold over the last 5 years? so the myth of fewer Americans owning firearms is a total lie.
You are right the cultural tide is turning, back to limited government, back to liberty and freedom over security and saferty
Gay issues and Gun Rights are nothing alike, we will not dip in numbers, over the last 10 years 16 to 30 years have been breaking into the gun culture like never before, understand the importance of the 2nd Amendment, and the value of an Armed citizenry, and the horrors of a citizenry disarmed.
With the Democratic party going full retard, and the GOP final finding its balls and following the libertarian model the future looks bright.
I disagree. I think in fact the whole Gay thing had a moral/belief in religion component that made it stronger.
The whole gun nut thing has none of those advantages other than paranoia.
There will be more gun laws passed. It is inevitable.
I have seen the studies and they are consistent fewer and fewer households own guns. This reallity will eventually seal the fate of the gun nut lobby in this nation.
Sadly, you may be right. As Americans grow even more dumb and dependent than they already are, the less value they will see in certain freedoms, or even freedom itself. However, if the last few months have shown me anything, it's that Americas love affair with guns and the right to keep and bear them is far from over, the culture isn't diminishing at all. In fact, the recent political attacks on the 2A have drawn even more people in to the fray. People who may not have thought about it much before are taking a stand. They are going out and buying GUNS for the first time in their lives.... Never have I seen an issue energize and politically mobilize so many people like this one has over the past 8 1/2 months. It has both united and divided them all at the same time. United them on the side of freedom, and divided them from those who would take it away,
Your prediction may well come true, but you nor any of the current crop of anti-gun nuts will live to see it, much to your disappointment and dismay I'm sure.
To my fellow 2A advocates.... The only way this happens is if we let it, if we allow the politically correct {insane} to be the dominant voice in the discussion. If we get complacent in our steadfast defense of a right not granted, but protected and enshrined by the Second Amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America.
I love when conservatives show their disdain for the American public.
I think I'll live to see more gun laws enacted.
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Funeral director says Chicago gun violence destroying city
