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Old 06-04-2013, 01:08 PM
 
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Great for him, but, I have never understood this. He is still a male, he can act like a woman all day long, but is how a woman acts nurture or nature? Some people state gender roles or created by society, if so, how does the mere fact of acting like a stereotypical woman now make a guy a woman? Ok, a bit off topic.
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Old 06-04-2013, 01:28 PM
 
1,738 posts, read 3,008,943 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boxus View Post
Great for him, but, I have never understood this. He is still a male, he can act like a woman all day long, but is how a woman acts nurture or nature? Some people state gender roles or created by society, if so, how does the mere fact of acting like a stereotypical woman now make a guy a woman? Ok, a bit off topic.
They get a sex change and are no longer male.
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Old 06-04-2013, 01:40 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Pyramidsurf View Post
They get a sex change and are no longer male.
In regards to biology, he is still male; having a male part absent (or coverted) does not make a person a female. There are people who have had that part blown off, loss to cancer, etc, it did not make them a female.

But just put aside th the sex change point; all the long hair, dresses, make-up, etc are all society driven stereotypes for women. Now either a person is born to desire these traits, or society conditions them to it (nurture-nature debate). If in fact gender roles and stereotypes are nature, than this would have even more far reaching implications in society. If it is nurture, such as gender roles are currently being treated, than he was influenced externally, and has a desire to act like a stereotypical woman, but that does not make him a female.
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Old 06-04-2013, 02:13 PM
 
1,738 posts, read 3,008,943 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boxus View Post
In regards to biology, he is still male; having a male part absent (or coverted) does not make a person a female. There are people who have had that part blown off, loss to cancer, etc, it did not make them a female.

But just put aside th the sex change point; all the long hair, dresses, make-up, etc are all society driven stereotypes for women. Now either a person is born to desire these traits, or society conditions them to it (nurture-nature debate). If in fact gender roles and stereotypes are nature, than this would have even more far reaching implications in society. If it is nurture, such as gender roles are currently being treated, than he was influenced externally, and has a desire to act like a stereotypical woman, but that does not make him a female.
Actually there are a lot of studies that seek to show that transgender persons are not just biologically one specific gender.

I don't see how he could be influenced externally. She (he) spent 20 years in the SEALS. I don't think it's as cut and dry as you're making it out to be.
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Old 06-04-2013, 02:35 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Pyramidsurf View Post
Actually there are a lot of studies that seek to show that transgender persons are not just biologically one specific gender.

I don't see how he could be influenced externally. She (he) spent 20 years in the SEALS. I don't think it's as cut and dry as you're making it out to be.
Studies, there are a lot of studies of everything. There are also studies showing homosexuals (I know different than transgender, just an example) had a high rate childhood sexual abuse; causation?

Easily influenced externally, the article states he had this attitude as a kid. SEALs are not at it 24/7, they ahve shore duty, leave, etc. The article stated the high intensity of the job basically made him asexual, so he may have not had issues due to the external environment.

Even if it is proven that a person can be more than one gender; how does that relate to the social concept of gender? Gender is a social concept, he could very well be transgender and still carry on as he did. But he played into the stereotype of what it is to be a woman, the nurture side of what it is to be a woman. I do not think there is a gene that states a woman suppose to wear cosmetics and dresses, that is a social concept of what a woman does.
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Old 06-04-2013, 02:41 PM
 
5,730 posts, read 10,131,440 times
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Originally Posted by Pyramidsurf View Post
They get a sex change and are no longer male.
So your saying that if someone has an accident and looses their male genitals they are now a woman!?!!! Or just that they are no longer a man!?!

Cosmetic changes do not alter DNA, or what you were born with.


I have a TG member of my family... (Post Op).... to say that they are EXTREMELY confused, disturbed, and not sane.... is putting it mildly.
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Old 06-04-2013, 02:53 PM
 
1,738 posts, read 3,008,943 times
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Originally Posted by boxus View Post
Studies, there are a lot of studies of everything. There are also studies showing homosexuals (I know different than transgender, just an example) had a high rate childhood sexual abuse; causation?
Typical response. The study seeks to prove a gene influences their choice similar to how people are born gay.

Quote:
Easily influenced externally, the article states he had this attitude as a kid. SEALs are not at it 24/7, they ahve shore duty, leave, etc. The article stated the high intensity of the job basically made him asexual, so he may have not had issues due to the external environment.
So?

Quote:
Even if it is proven that a person can be more than one gender; how does that relate to the social concept of gender? Gender is a social concept, he could very well be transgender and still carry on as he did. But he played into the stereotype of what it is to be a woman, the nurture side of what it is to be a woman. I do not think there is a gene that states a woman suppose to wear cosmetics and dresses, that is a social concept of what a woman does.
BBC NEWS | Health | Transsexual gene link identified

It's not as simple as saying it's a lifestyle choice.

He wants to be a woman. Why would he dress like a man? I'm not even sure of the point you're getting at.

I honestly don't feel like debating it. I just thought it was interesting. I'm especially disgusted at some people's comments on newspaper articles.

Last edited by Pyramidsurf; 06-04-2013 at 03:09 PM..
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Old 06-04-2013, 05:00 PM
 
Location: USA - midwest
5,944 posts, read 5,587,199 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyramidsurf View Post
Breaking: The First Female Navy SEAL, Kristen Beck - Democratic Underground

SEAL Team 6 veteran comes out as transgender - Salon.com


Interesting. What does everyone else think? I'm glad the dude, errr, woman can be happy.

Sounds like something from a supermarket tabloid.
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Old 06-04-2013, 05:02 PM
 
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I want to personally congratulate this man for taking his steps to surgically become a woman. I take this man very seriously.
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Old 06-04-2013, 05:04 PM
 
Location: Montreal, Quebec
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I wish her all the very best.
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