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For all of you jumping on Nonarchist... he was trolling and does not even believe the comment that has gotten you all upset. I simply put him on ignore because Formosa's law declares that people who are mentally ill have enough trouble without also being continuously attacked on-line.
Yeah... are you addressing your thread to those who are educated in the intent of the Bill of Rights, or those who use it as a challenge to liberties? Or just think it's a dish rag for right handed persons?
PS. I also have to note... it appears that you have never read a word of Locke. Or if you have, you have rejected him wholesale.
Quote:
If you shut up and do as you're told, you have the right not to be killed ~ Hobbes
Actually, as a descendant of three (3) families that are charter members of the Sons of the Revolution, and an educated/informed American in general, I do know what I'm talking about - It seems you're the one supporting the mutated Military/Banking Empire that the USofA has morphed into since 1933...
Actually, as a descendant of three (3) families that are charter members of the Sons of the Revolution, and an educated/informed American in general, I do know what I'm talking about -
There is no evidence of that anywhere in this thread.
As a descendent of peasants, sulfur miners and highwaymen... I am just as proud of my ancestors (and just as unable to claim any credit for anything they did) as you are.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biz901
It seems you're the one supporting the mutated Military/Banking Empire that the USofA has morphed into since 1933...
Of the two of us, I appear to be the only one genuinely conversant about what has even gone on since 1933.
...some people that want permission slips from the government stating what they can and cannot do.
Yes, and this, we should note, happens pretty equitably within BOTH the major political parties in the USA. Among their leaders and lay members.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude
There are no such things as "god given rights." To the extent that anyone or any group has rights, they were taken, not given. We chose as a nation to take our rights and secure them under the authority of a Constitution. That Constitution created a government tasked to secure and protect those rights and most importantly to manage their conflict. This was done under the certainly correct understanding that without the coercive power of a government such rights soon destroy each other. We are therefore a nation of laws, not of men.
Though uneven and imperfect (as all human endeavors are) our system has worked for almost a quarter of a millennium.
If you are the author of this, kudos to you. This is probably the most concise and well-spoken paragraph+ I have ever seen on an internet forum. And I've ridden a few of those rodeos. Nice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by alphamale
Almost everything our government "does for us" is by coercion.
They cannot do what they do unless they take from one to give to another.
I think something really fundamental that people often forget (and the fact that they do forget is a sad testament to how far we've strayed from this notion) is that the governent is, ostensibly, supposed to be us. Remember: by, of and for The People.
I am not saying that the gov't in this country actually functions that way, and it has grown less inclined to do so all the time since its inception. There's a pervasive "Citizens v Government" feeling, some of it not unearned.
Frankly, neither party is doing "The Will of The People."
This country, at the national level, is bought and sold and run by multinational CEOs, heads of global banks and energy concerns, and wealthy and powerful lobbying groups. It's them that runs things.
I would argue that there ARE NO "natural rights". All rights must be fought for and only exist as long as you or the society you live in has the ability to enforce those rights.
The "right" of free expression is only valid as long as you can enforce that right. If you don't believe me, travel to Iran, go to a busy town square, and start screaming that Muhammad was a pedophile.
Or go to south-central LA, find the biggest thug you can, and tell him you have the right to call him a wuss AND you have the right to life AND you have the right to not have him and his gang beat you to a bloody pulp. See how well those "natural rights" work for you.
Same for the "right" to keep and bear arms. That right was part of the 1686 British Bill of Rights ("no royal interference in the freedom of the people to have arms for their own defence as suitable to their class and as allowed by law"), but it was slowly stripped away to the present point of non-existence. The NRA and the GOA have problems, but they are doing a good job of protecting our rights to self-protection through firearms here in the USA.
In essence, as there are no "natural rights", our ancestors banded together and created a government with the power to enforce the rights they wanted enforced. They enumerated those rights into the constitution in the form of the Bill of Rights. The rights do not exist without the power of the government to back them up. AND, the power of the government only exists as long as the people allow it to have that power.
Last edited by An Einnseanair; 04-27-2013 at 02:06 PM..
There are no such things as "god given rights." To the extent that anyone or any group has rights, they were taken, not given. We chose as a nation to take our rights and secure them under the authority of a Constitution. That Constitution created a government tasked to secure and protect those rights and most importantly to manage their conflict. This was done under the certainly correct understanding that without the coercive power of a government such rights soon destroy each other. We are therefore a nation of laws, not of men.
Though uneven and imperfect (as all human endeavors are) our system has worked for almost a quarter of a millennium.
Looks like there has been a most active trend to subvert these very thing that continues and even grows.
Now the coercive govermnet destroys them.
There are no such things as "god given rights." To the extent that anyone or any group has rights, they were taken, not given. We chose as a nation to take our rights and secure them under the authority of a Constitution. That Constitution created a government tasked to secure and protect those rights and most importantly to manage their conflict. This was done under the certainly correct understanding that without the coercive power of a government such rights soon destroy each other. We are therefore a nation of laws, not of men.
Though uneven and imperfect (as all human endeavors are) our system has worked for almost a quarter of a millennium.
Very well put as were your other posts. The Dude abides on this thread...
Looks like there has been a most active trend to subvert these very thing that continues and even grows.
Now the coercive govermnet destroys them.
Yes, and more accurately it is statists that believe that .GOV as the ultimate authority and power, and not Rule of Law and the Natural Rights of the People.
Moreover, statist politicos make up rights as they go, which are to be controlled by the .GOV of course - The interpret all Rights as .GOV conferred privileges:
There is no evidence of that anywhere in this thread.
As a descendent of peasants, sulfur miners and highwaymen... I am just as proud of my ancestors (and just as unable to claim any credit for anything they did) as you are.
Of the two of us, I appear to be the only one genuinely conversant about what has even gone on since 1933.
As far as I have noticed, I am the only one that has specifically mentioned a time period here, specifically the status of Emergency Powers since 1933, did I miss some theoretical you discussed?
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The Bill of Rights PROTECTS Rights
