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After reading the howling from the anti-boomer generation about how we are going to get back more from SS and steal it from younger generations I decided to find out exactly what I did pay in.
So I looked up my SS statement online and while I don't want to share everything how about I share the first 15 years from 1966 to 1980?
Let's look at some real hard numbers. Here is my first 15 years remember inflation (the cruelest tax of all) has been a factor in my lifetime.
Column A is year
Column B is the average bank passbook savings around interest rate which I found at the url on the spreadsheet.
Column C is my annual earnings. Some is skewed like 1968 and 1969 when I was in the army and in Vietnam we weren't taxed on our pay so i actually did earn more than shown. I think I was paid $333.month but the lower amount is on my SS statement.
Column D was the combined social security taxes % rate paid by both the employer and employee.
Column E was the combined medicare taxes % paid by both the employer and employee.
Coilum F was the total amount of SS taxes paid, Column G was the total amount of medicare taxes paid while Column H is the combined total.
Column J was the interest I would have earned had the amounts collected been put into a simple bank savings passbook.
Column K was the accumulated amount of principle and interest I would have had in my passbook over my lifetime.
Of course this is the first 15 years and for a lot of that time I worked for pretty low wages as a flight instructor but even so if you factor inflation the $5,850 I earned in 1975 it would be equivalent to $25,162 today or about $12.50/hr. I guess I wasn't paid as poorly as I thought at the time after all.
Then in the late 70's I changed careers and continued to earn more every year. In 1980 I was 32 years old and earned $19,900 which factored for inflation would be equivalent to $55,885 today. You have to look at everything through the prism of inflation especially the wonderful years of Jimmy Carter.
Like everything through life I had good years and bad. Some years were really good and others not so good but all in all it was a good ride.
But the interesting thing is over 46 years had the money placed with social security been put into a simple passbook savings around in my name I would have $642,601.28 in my account. Even at 2% interest that total would earn $1,071.00 every month for the rest of my life without touching principal starting at the first of this year!
Where is it Gen X and Y come across thinking we are going to take out more then the boomers put in?
So how much do you suppose I would receive in Social Security benefits should I take them when I turn 66 in a year? SS estimates my benefit will be $2,131/month. I feel a tingle up my leg.
At a 1% return rate, simple bank savings account again, I could withdraw $2,952.83/month until I am 85 years old before I run out of money. $2,952.83/month is a whole lot better than $2,131/month.
At 2% rate and 15 years I would be at $4,128.31/month. Be broke as heck at age 80.
Actuaries put me living to age 76 so we will see how I come out.
I wish I could have the same retirement beanies as members of congress, don't you?
We paid the most you could for 58 years of working. I'm not smart enough to do the math, but I strongly suspect that it would throw off more than the pissant amount we are getting on CD's now. You should be able to draw off 4% and never run out of principle.
Paying in is something that is done voluntarily. The money was taken by the government. If you were an employee throughout your working life, then the money was sent to the government by your employer. You never saw it or had access to it - which by default means you did not "pay in". A law exists that requires it to be taken on all earned income. And if you were an employee - then your employer paid 50% of what was due in the form of SSI taxes and was not part of your wage.
If the money was ever "paid in", then it could be accessed and withdrawn at the will of the person that paid in.
Social Security exists as well as the laws that require the tax to be accounted for because a long time ago, those in power realized that the average American would never make enough money to save for retirement and more importantly in cases where some did - they would never choose to save enough, so in order to maintain social order and prevent old people from becoming a direct burden on the state in old age, they created the Social Security system.
...Skydive......snipped...they would never choose to save enough, so in order to maintain social order and prevent old people from becoming a direct burden on the state in old age, they created the Social Security system.
That's an impressive amount of research and analysis. Ultimately though, the argument you are trying to disprove is a specious one anyone. SS is not the same as a 401k plan or individual retirement account. To argue that some are getting more out of it than they put in is silly, especially when you consider that retirees who are drawing SS have paid into for as long as they were supposed to. They played by the rules and are following the rules. If anyone is more likely to draw more than they have contributed, it would be young people who get survivor benefits.
SS is meant to be a safety net for people who need one - people who no longer work, disabled people, etc. Best to just dismiss people who don't get this particular notion and make the argument you are trying to discredit.
Though, I guess to be fair, if you live to be 120, they might have a point . . .
Paying in is something that is done voluntarily. The money was taken by the government.
Yeah, yeah.
Quote:
If you were an employee throughout your working life, then the money was sent to the government by your employer. You never saw it or had access to it - which by default means you did not "pay in". A law exists that requires it to be taken on all earned income. And if you were an employee - then your employer paid 50% of what was due in the form of SSI taxes and was not part of your wage.
for half my life I was self employed meaning I got to pay the self employment tax and when I wrote that check out every quarter, sometimes monthly, it sure as heck felt like I was paying it.
And even if you're an employee the employee is still paying that employers paid portion because the money has to come from somewhere and it comes from the work product. This money comes from you, comes out of your pocket, because you pay it in the form of higher cost for items every time you make a purchase. The only other places it could come from his government, government produces nothing so it didn't come from government, or the tooth fairy.
Quote:
If the money was ever "paid in", then it could be accessed and withdrawn at the will of the person that paid in.
Social Security exists as well as the laws that require the tax to be accounted for because a long time ago, those in power realized that the average American would never make enough money to save for retirement and more importantly in cases where some did - they would never choose to save enough, so in order to maintain social order and prevent old people from becoming a direct burden on the state in old age, they created the Social Security system.
You act as if someone who didn't save enough it is somehow their personal fault. This isn't always the case just ask the people who invested heavily into WorldCom, Enron or Madoff Securiites. Sometimes very bad things happen to good people and while they may have scoffed at Social Security when they were worth $3 million on paper for many all they have left is Social Security.
Oh, and these people were not the "average Americans" you speak rather disdainfully of either. Just good hard working people that had bad things happen and I am happy they are at least receiving $2,500/month as a single or $3,750 as a couple.... not a whole lot of money there but it could be worse... if it weren't for social security they could be 74 years old trying to get by on nothing.
As an American, never mind for the moment I am a hard right wing Reagan republican, the last thing I want to see is abject poverty that some countries suffer under because a safety net, and that is all social security is, is lacking in those countries.
You for example. Allow me to assume you are 30 years old, married for four years and just had your second child six months ago. What would happen to you and your family if you came down with ALS and couldn't work? What if you fell asleep driving down a dark road and had an accident where your back was broken leaving your paralyzed from the waist down? Both horrible tragedies I wouldn't wish on anyone but sometimes horrible things happen to good people.
With both these what would happen to you and your family? Blah, blah, blah... I hear it already "I got life insurance" but with ALS it won't pay off until you die which could be 3 to 4 years and in the meantime what does your family live on? What do you live on?
If it's a back injury life insurance won't pay out and in the meantime what do you and your family live on?
With a typical life insurance policy of say $500k that's a lot of money but not enough to raise two children through college and if your wife is 30 now what does she do then? Yeah, get a job at Wal Mart? That $500k today will likely be worth $250k in 25 to 30 years if history repeats itself.
Oh, I got it; disability insurance, right? Yeah, but most policies go for only two years maximum, pay a maximum of 50% of your salary and are not indexed to inflation. Furthermore if you could find a policy that would pay for the rest of your life that was indexed to inflation you couldn't afford the premiums.
As a hard right wing Reagan republican the last thing I would want to see is your family destitute because of a tragedy even if you did vote for Obama.
Social security is not just for old geezers like me.
After reading the howling from the anti-boomer generation about how we are going to get back more from SS and steal it from younger generations I decided to find out exactly what I did pay in.
So I looked up my SS statement online and while I don't want to share everything how about I share the first 15 years from 1966 to 1980?
Let's look at some real hard numbers. Here is my first 15 years remember inflation (the cruelest tax of all) has been a factor in my lifetime.
Column A is year
Column B is the average bank passbook savings around interest rate which I found at the url on the spreadsheet.
Column C is my annual earnings. Some is skewed like 1968 and 1969 when I was in the army and in Vietnam we weren't taxed on our pay so i actually did earn more than shown. I think I was paid $333.month but the lower amount is on my SS statement.
Column D was the combined social security taxes % rate paid by both the employer and employee.
Column E was the combined medicare taxes % paid by both the employer and employee.
Coilum F was the total amount of SS taxes paid, Column G was the total amount of medicare taxes paid while Column H is the combined total.
Column J was the interest I would have earned had the amounts collected been put into a simple bank savings passbook.
Column K was the accumulated amount of principle and interest I would have had in my passbook over my lifetime.
Of course this is the first 15 years and for a lot of that time I worked for pretty low wages as a flight instructor but even so if you factor inflation the $5,850 I earned in 1975 it would be equivalent to $25,162 today or about $12.50/hr. I guess I wasn't paid as poorly as I thought at the time after all.
Then in the late 70's I changed careers and continued to earn more every year. In 1980 I was 32 years old and earned $19,900 which factored for inflation would be equivalent to $55,885 today. You have to look at everything through the prism of inflation especially the wonderful years of Jimmy Carter.
Like everything through life I had good years and bad. Some years were really good and others not so good but all in all it was a good ride.
But the interesting thing is over 46 years had the money placed with social security been put into a simple passbook savings around in my name I would have $642,601.28 in my account. Even at 2% interest that total would earn $1,071.00 every month for the rest of my life without touching principal starting at the first of this year!
Where is it Gen X and Y come across thinking we are going to take out more then the boomers put in?
So how much do you suppose I would receive in Social Security benefits should I take them when I turn 66 in a year? SS estimates my benefit will be $2,131/month. I feel a tingle up my leg.
At a 1% return rate, simple bank savings account again, I could withdraw $2,952.83/month until I am 85 years old before I run out of money. $2,952.83/month is a whole lot better than $2,131/month.
At 2% rate and 15 years I would be at $4,128.31/month. Be broke as heck at age 80.
Actuaries put me living to age 76 so we will see how I come out.
I wish I could have the same retirement beanies as members of congress, don't you?
Now you understand why I opted out of SS. My retirement will be 1,000 x's better than any SS check I would have received. and I can start collecting it at 50 when it matures, instead of 65.
Now you understand why I opted out of SS. My retirement will be 1,000 x's better than any SS check I would have received. and I can start collecting it at 50 when it matures, instead of 65.
So you are a government employee who constantly attacks government....figures. If you are a Vet with multiple disabilities then you really have found a solution to government spending.
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