We are a nation of two classes....the recipient class and the provider class. (lawyer, military)
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There are THREE essential components to a capitalist economy:
1) Land
2) Labor
3) Capital
The rich cannot stay rich selling their crap to each other.
We're all in it together. People in America act as if they've got SUCH a tax burden, but you cannot enjoy civil society and a peaceful society without taxes, so deal with it. I pay a LOT in taxes, but know my success and comfort depends on a well ordered society. I'd prefer the current system over the South American model of small professional middle and upper classes in gated, armed communities with seas of impoverished outside the gates, thank you. It's worth that extra 5% or 10% taxes!
Trump does. Rolex does. Mercedes Benz Does. BMW, Lamborghini, Porsche, Tiffany, Bannenberg and Rowell, etc.
"MORE" responsible is the key to this. Ultimate responsibility lies with the parent. But we all have some responsibility to chip in a little for the care of children who aren't fully supported by their parents' work, or who are orphans. Do you want them to grow up capable of being assets to society, or do you want them to grow up like the street children of thirdworld countries, brain damaged from malnutrition and glue-sniffing, already on their way to becoming career criminals?
In addition to this, if Alphamale (who claims never to have received help from the govt) has ever traveled on paved public roads, been covered by police and fire services, has been schooled, or has used any invention derived from public university research (such as modern vehicles and practically every high tech gadget from phones to synthetic fabrics) - then he has received help in his life from the govt. In fact if he is better off in any way than his equally intelligent and industrious ancestors from 10,000 years ago, it was mainly due to being in a society supported by some form of taxation.
I have zero responsibility to feed YOUR children. That responsibility falls entirely on you. Face it, it's really not that difficult to provide the basics for YOUR children, is it? If a child is orphaned, that's a different story.
As far as using infrastructure, it is a function of the government.
My tax dollars have gone to fund those projects.
The recipient class contributed nothing, yet they are still entitled to travel these same roads.
Trump does. Rolex does. Mercedes Benz Does. BMW, Lamborghini, Porsche, Tiffany, Bannenberg and Rowell, etc.
I can go on and on and on and on........
Send the check!
Who makes the Rolexes, Mercedes, Lambourghini's and Porches? Not enough trust fund babies and old men with millions to base an economy on sales of Rolls and Aston Martins.
I don't see Trump building his condos, either (let alone live in one). And even Martha Stewart's daughter is infamously quoted as having refused a gift of her mother's branded (manufactured in some third world hovel) towels and linens as "crap."
Sorry, you're wrong. The SCOTUS has ruled that public aid is general welfare, REPEATEDLY. You're on the losing end of this argument yet again becaise your opinion or a Google search definition of "general welfare" doesn't trump a SCOTUS ruling that says otherwise.
You would think someone that thumps on and on about the constitution would know that.
Where in the constitution say ANYTHING about infrastructure? It might be something that BECAME part of this broad general welfare clause but the constitution does NOT mandate any infrastructure, it mandates a post office, but roads, bridges, harbors, and on and on is NOT mentioned in your bible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by alphamale
Of course taxation is constitutional.
The government, however, is limited to spending.
Infrastructure is for "the general welfare".
Welfare, as we know it today, is not. Google "meaning of the general welfare...it includes infrastructure, but not talking from one citizen to give to another individual.
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States; To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;
To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;
To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;
To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;
To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;
To establish Post Offices and post Roads;
To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;
To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;
To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations;
To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;
To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;
To provide and maintain a Navy;
To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;
To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;
To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;--And
To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.
Last edited by buzzards27; 03-16-2012 at 04:12 PM..
Location: where you sip the tea of the breasts of the spinsters of Utica
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alphamale
I have zero responsibility to feed YOUR children. That responsibility falls entirely on you. Face it, it's really not that difficult to provide the basics for YOUR children, is it? If a child is orphaned, that's a different story.
As far as using infrastructure, it is a function of the government.
My tax dollars have gone to fund those projects.
The recipient class contributed nothing, yet they are still entitled to travel these same roads.
The recipient class contributed what they could, which is sales tax on anything, and possibly license/registration fees if they have a vehicle.
I don't have children, so let's take the general case of "welfare" children. Do you have direct responsibility for the children of single moms (which are the largest class of children needing help)? Probably not, unless you've been slumming and running. But our society, our nation DOES have some responsibility to see the children raised with at least the basics of food, health care, clothing and shelter. Remember the thirdworld slums? There's simply no way other than public assistance for a single mom to raise kids without having a good enough job to buy child care, and that's quite rare.
Since our nation DOES have partial responsibility for these children (in order to prevent them from becoming useless and dangerous criminals sucking up justice system dollars), it undertakes to promote the general welfare by giving their mothers welfare. And since you are a member of this society and benefiting from it (otherwise you would be living a 10,000 BC lifestyle), you also need to pony up your fair share of the taxes needed to do that.
Other than gifts from friends and family on holidays and birthdays.
Nothing from the government....to the contrary, I've paid many thousands of dollars into the government.
The US military protects everyone, INCLUDING YOU.
The court system, high and low protects everyone, INCLUDING YOU.
The FBI, CIA, ICE, ATF, and all the others protects everyone, INCLUDING YOU.
The local, state and federal law enforcement protects everyone, INCLUDING YOU.
The local fire and rescue squads protects everyone, INCLUDING YOU.
The FAA and Customs protects everyone, INCLUDING YOU.
The roads, bridges, airports, harbor are there for everyone, INCLUDING YOU.
The water and sewer treatment plants are there for everyone, INCLUDING YOU.
The airways, radio and TV, are there for everyone, INCLUDING YOU.
This internet is built out and regulated by the government for everyone, INCLUDING YOU.
The post office is there for everyone, INCLUDING YOU.
ANYTHING you buy or consume was brought to you via the public infrastructure you claim you don't use.
EVERY employee your engage in your quest for wealth that uses that public infrastructure to get to your workplace benefited from that infrastructure and by extension so did you.
Same for EVERY vendor, client, customer, supplier, they all used that infrastructure, and you benefited by that use. Without their use of the public infrastructure, your costs would grow.
You only look foolish when you thump you chest and say you don't take from the government. You might be part of the provider class but you are also a member of the recipient class.
The banks were not loaned anything but were given trillions and trillions of the most efficient form of money, which is debt free money, which is money for nothing where as everyone else gets stuck under the fraudulent national debt system. The banks literally threatened via Hank Paulson to implode the economy and tanks in the streets and martial law if the banks didn't get their trillions in welfare and the economy still imploded anyway after the welfare bailouts. Unless you are a central banker or a member of the council on foreign relations or perhaps a CEO of a bailed out New York money center mega bank like Jamie Dimon then there was no benefit to you or I from these bailouts.
They paid the money back with interest. It was a money maker for the US Government. That benefits me. It would benefit you too if you lived in the US.
Yeah, 99% provide profits for the 1% recipient class.
That kind of idiocy doesn't fly anymore, not when the truth came out that close to 50% of Americans no longer pay ANY federal income taxes.
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