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Old 02-20-2012, 11:23 AM
 
Location: West Orange, NJ
12,546 posts, read 21,531,597 times
Reputation: 3730

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Quote:
Originally Posted by KUchief25 View Post
No it's not it simply shows we have to do something about social security and medicare. You know SPENDING. It is only getting worse by the day as more hit the retirement rolls and now add in the payroll tax cut that is supposed to fund it. Insanity at work in DC.
yes, but most individuals, once you get past the generic "cut spending" mantra, have shown they don't want to do much, if anything, about social security and medicare.
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Old 02-20-2012, 11:27 AM
 
Location: Houston
26,979 posts, read 15,999,859 times
Reputation: 11259
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
The point being, there is no such notion as "follow the constitution," because the people who wrote it knew they couldn't anticipate every single action that may arise in the future nor did they have a crystal ball to know what may be needed in the future. That's why they wrote it vaguely, to leave it up to future people to decide.
“I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents.” James Madison

The oligarchs in black robes are sadly not properly limited by the Constitution they have so badly undermined.
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Old 02-20-2012, 11:43 AM
 
1,290 posts, read 2,581,982 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
I just love that one because it it displays the misinformed notion that the Constitution is a detailed document, which it is not.

A good example is the First Amendment, which states:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Is placing a nativity scene on public grounds establishment of religion or would denying one the right to do it infringement of religion?

Another example is, if the press cannot infringed upon, what about radio and TV? The literal view that you are taking, says yes, because radio and TV aren't mentioned in the Constitution.

Also, if the press cannot be infringed upon, can the government stop a newspaper from printing the formula for a plague virus, that can be used by terrorists? The same goes for the plans for an atom bomb.

Gee, it doesn't specifically say in the Constitution, does it? So, can they or can't they?

The point being, there is no such notion as "follow the constitution," because the people who wrote it knew they couldn't anticipate every single action that may arise in the future nor did they have a crystal ball to know what may be needed in the future. That's why they wrote it vaguely, to leave it up to future people to decide.
Orly? Congress shall not....... what part of that is so difficult to understand? A nativity on public grounds..... Public does not mean 'owned by pathetic mid level government functionary' I say put it ALL to a vote. Then I also say reduce the number of public buildings, which are in reality bottomless pits used to consume tax dollars.
Sorry, Mr Government Knows Best, but we will have to agree to disagree. Today's media is a silent partner of big government, rather than a source for informing the people of how they are being robbed and what their confiscated wealth is being used for.
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Old 02-20-2012, 11:45 AM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,792 posts, read 14,037,499 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradykp View Post
yes, but most individuals, once you get past the generic "cut spending" mantra, have shown they don't want to do much, if anything, about social security and medicare.
In essence, you are saying, take the money that millions of Americans paid into specific taxes for their old age medical and retirement and keep it -- using it to reduce the deficit. That is indeed immoral.
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Old 02-20-2012, 11:47 AM
 
22,768 posts, read 30,898,483 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
le roi,
Neither public or private debt is inflationary in a liquidity trap (that's what we're in now.)

a liquidity trap doesn't necessarily predicate inflation or deflation or stagflation. you print $1 trillion in public debt and mail it in $20 bills to every American and that will be inflationary, even in a liquidity trap.

a liquidity trap mainly means that the private sector is no longer sensitive to interest rates. Private sector lending may have been the dominant method of creating inflation during the bubble years, but it is not the only one, nor is it the only possible one.

(So, in other words, the inflationary effect(s) are due to how the money is spent or not spent, not by whether government or private sector is doing the borrowing.)

Last edited by le roi; 02-20-2012 at 12:12 PM..
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Old 02-20-2012, 12:27 PM
 
Location: Houston
26,979 posts, read 15,999,859 times
Reputation: 11259
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
In essence, you are saying, take the money that millions of Americans paid into specific taxes for their old age medical and retirement and keep it -- using it to reduce the deficit. That is indeed immoral.
Right now we ain't paying in enough on medicare and medicaid to come near to paying our future health care costs. SS just needs a little tweeking, medicare and medicaid needs a complete overhaul.
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Old 02-20-2012, 12:30 PM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,792 posts, read 14,037,499 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whogo View Post
Right now we ain't paying in enough on medicare and medicaid to come near to paying our future health care costs. SS just needs a little tweeking, medicare and medicaid needs a complete overhaul.
A good argument for universal single-payer health care.
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Old 02-20-2012, 01:01 PM
 
Location: Houston
26,979 posts, read 15,999,859 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
A good argument for universal single-payer health care.
How is that going to control costs?
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Old 02-20-2012, 01:36 PM
Status: "Democracies tend to decline into despotism. (Aristotle)" (set 10 days ago)
 
Location: Berwick, Penna.
16,230 posts, read 11,460,262 times
Reputation: 20862
One of the points I should have emphasized more in my original posts is that whenever the state tries to "protect" us from the business cycle, the crisis is usually bigger and longer the next time around. The urge to gamble and speculate lies deep within the human psyche, and sooner or later, one interest group or another will succeed (usually with help from the government, via the state's monopoly on te power to coerce) in undermining the most recent "safety measures".

Up until the Great Depression of the Thirties, contractions (then referred to as "panics"), were more severe but usually shorter in duration. Since that time, with the public sector assuming a larger role via bailouts, stimulus, etc, recovery seems harder to restart. Only the Supreme Court saved our economy by invalidating the NRA in 1935, and I don't see that happening this time around.

I fail to see how the smaller, more-skeptical entreprenueur can be convinced to risk his capital when the apparent goal of the current Administration is to bring an ever-increasing portion of our economy under stronger influence, with the public-sector unions and the entitlement-addicted enjoying the most protected status.

Last edited by 2nd trick op; 02-20-2012 at 02:27 PM..
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Old 02-20-2012, 03:07 PM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,792 posts, read 14,037,499 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whogo View Post
How is that going to control costs?
Because every other modern nation that has it has roughly half the costs, provides better care and covers everyone.
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