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Old 02-07-2012, 11:43 AM
 
20,739 posts, read 19,482,900 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
The "landed gentry" typically don't get Fannie/Freddie mortgage loans.
Those in gentrified neighborhoods benefit plenty from the mortgage write off and the loose credit polices of the FED. The bubble was a massive scale wealth transfer to long time property owners. Its not a theory. Its a fact. It was wealth that rewarded no productive effort at all.

 
Old 02-07-2012, 11:46 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,836,810 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
Those in gentrified neighborhoods benefit plenty from the mortgage write off and the loose credit polices of the FED. The bubble was a massive scale wealth transfer to long time property owners. Its not a theory. Its a fact. It was wealth that rewarded no productive effort at all.
Ok but not today. Those days are gone.
But today's payroll tax cut is going to be paid by fees to Fannie/Freddie mortgage holders. Mortgage holders pay $15/month for 10 years to cover this 2 month extension.
 
Old 02-07-2012, 11:50 AM
 
9,727 posts, read 9,774,492 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
Ok but not today. Those days are gone.
But today's payroll tax cut is going to be paid by fees to Fannie/Freddie mortgage holders. Mortgage holders pay $15/month for 10 years to cover this 2 month extension.

Baloney. That "fee" will last forever. The Congress has never created a tax that expired. They will make an excuse for it to be renewed. Think "Spanish American War" tax on your phone bill that was just removed a few years ago.
 
Old 02-07-2012, 11:54 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,836,810 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinm View Post
Baloney. That "fee" will last forever. The Congress has never created a tax that expired. They will make an excuse for it to be renewed. Think "Spanish American War" tax on your phone bill that was just removed a few years ago.
Yes I know that. I'm only the messenger though..the government said "10 years".
 
Old 02-07-2012, 11:55 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinm View Post
Tax cuts are "paid for" when the programs they support are scaled back as they should.

You can't cut taxes and keep the same spending levels.

Actually you can when there is a capital and labor surplus. Its like saying you can't have someone in your family who is sleeping on the couch do any chores.

To bad we have ruined our credit system. Supposed to work something like this:

Someone who has an extra hundred dollars decides to save rather than spend. Since its credit, it represent goods somewhere in the economy, not in the household like saving something in the root seller.

So this credit is supposed to go to a bank where they will place this surplus to productive use. Banks then try to allocate it.

If banks don't allocate this surplus we still need to do something about this $100 signal of credit surplus. As a last resort, da guberment can try to put it to use or try and signal to the saver that he should use it.

People sleeping, boarded up windows and green paper in the mattress isn't saving. Its a malfunctioning credit system


I can go into a long explanation of everything broken in our credit system and why it isn't working this way, but I just don't have the time right now. Part of the reason is many people think it works like balancing their checkbook and that money is actually a real good but I digress...
 
Old 02-07-2012, 11:58 AM
 
20,739 posts, read 19,482,900 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
Ok but not today. Those days are gone.
But today's payroll tax cut is going to be paid by fees to Fannie/Freddie mortgage holders. Mortgage holders pay $15/month for 10 years to cover this 2 month extension.
Trade it for the mortgage interest deduction and find out what plumb with taxes on labor really means. Assets are priced too high as it is and its why our industry is rusting.
 
Old 02-07-2012, 12:01 PM
 
29,980 posts, read 43,096,845 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
Oh how the landed gentry now weep that they cannot collect money for craping in the same place for 10 years. Didn't hear them cry about the mortgage interest deduction and now they whine about this?


I am a home owner BTW, but who is not a flaming hypocrite. How about not "paying for" the extension and rather doing away with the FIRE sector welfare? How about we pay the extension with the elimination of this give away that all just goes to the FIRE sector anyway?

Homeowners have been shifting the tax burden on labor for years, and now that this drop in the bucket reversal comes, they act that as if they are betrayed. It merely reflects the reality that wealth is not created by owning consumer assets. Its created by production. We can't just keep trying to make home owners wealthy as we have for the last 3 decades. Its falling apart.

What is it that slogan faux-conservatives always say about socialism and welfare?


"It doesn't work"
Reaching pretty far back in time for that class welfare cry aren't you? Now what was "the American Dream" of buying a house is now villified as the "landed gentry"? Really?
 
Old 02-07-2012, 12:01 PM
 
Location: Portland, OR
8,802 posts, read 8,935,873 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter_Sucks View Post
Why is the House GOP insisting that the extension of the payroll tax cut be paid for, I thought all tax cuts paid for themselves?
The only way one can bring up this concept of "paying for tax cuts" is if you believe your income is not yours. Tax cuts don't have to be paid for because they aren't a favor the government grants, because it isn't the government's money.
 
Old 02-07-2012, 12:13 PM
 
20,739 posts, read 19,482,900 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifelongMOgal View Post
Reaching pretty far back in time for that class welfare cry aren't you? Now what was "the American Dream" of buying a house is now villified as the "landed gentry"? Really?
Pretty far back? The FIRE sector is the new landed gentry. That is why we call them gentrified neighborhoods in the here and now. I am all for home ownership. I am not for rigging the markets to enrich them, and having to experience the bile production when I see them whine like babies about not being able to screw over their own children.


It cannot function. Welfare for home owners "doesn't work". Money needs to be given to people who produce, not people who own stuff. Its only going to make everyone poor in the long run as we are now realizing.

Gentrified - from gentry.
How to Gentrify a Neighborhood | eHow.com
there is an ongoing debate whether or not this is a good thing to happen, although the general population sees this as a positive.

And the general population is wrong, but I was outnumbered 100 to 1 before the housing bubble.
The rise of rent is always the effect of the increasing wealth of the country, and of the difficulty of providing food for its augmented population. It is a symptom, but it is never a cause of wealth; for wealth often increases most rapidly while rent is either stationary, or even falling.

-Ricardo on the law of rents.

Classic correlation is not causation error. We try to backfill housing prices because we think it creates wealth. Its the opposite.
 
Old 02-07-2012, 12:16 PM
 
69,368 posts, read 64,362,798 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter_Sucks View Post
Why is the House GOP insisting that the extension of the payroll tax cut be paid for, I thought all tax cuts paid for themselves?
How did Clinton cut the capital gains taxes from 28% to 20% and slashed taxes on 90% of businesses, while creating "surpluses"
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