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ovcatto, 110% right. First yes, we cannot make all we need, so manufacturers getting stuff abroad would be DOA. Second, the stuff we could mae would bring about an explosion of robots purchased, not many NEW employees. ROI on a robot = cost/savings per unit, and most corps approve any that pay back cost in a few years. Raise the cost of the labor (i.e. China - US), while robot cost stays the same, tremendous amounts of capital decision pass the "Let's Hire the Robot" test.
That is what all folks ignore on what are essentially job/wage discussions like this thread. Its not China or uSA. Its ANY country on the globe, automation, or US. That middle option is overlooked.
Even with your robot scenario, as long as they are "American" robots located here, you would still need people to manage the operations and the robots.
And, I think we can make most things here. If it can be made in China, why not here?
You're advocating the purest form of isolationism there is. I'm wondering if you're actually serious about this?
How would that dovetail with needing natural resources like precious metals and stuff you need to make everything from catalytic convertors to radioactive isotopes for medicinal purposes. Do you expect the rest of the world to just roll over and play dead while you default all over the place and still demand stuff come your way?
China is not to be taken lightly regardless of what people may say on here. You won't use Nukes in any exchange ever again. There's just too many folks out there that can fire them back at you or bring them right into your living room with your pizza so how do you see a really angry China reponding to this. Do you simply believe they'd bellyache but suck it up? I don't.
You currently have a large military complex that needs constant nourishment. Where's the money going to come from to keep them happy. Who they going to sell their stuff to with the U.S. now being their only puchaser?
You can't make stuff in the U.S. of A. because your shareholders want those dividends and they run the show like it or not. Capital expenditures to bring stuff back to your shores would wipe out a couple of years worth of investment return at the very least. Soros, Buffet, Gates et-al would be even more formidable foes with your scenario.
What I find amazing is you still allow guys like Dodds and Franks to sit in the big house with impunity while you castigate China for your predicament. Those should have been the first two individuals to take the hit, but nope; you throw the blame at the wall and hope some will stick.
You individuals out there that thought they could use a sub-prime mortgage to fund a lavish lifestyle and are now whining are the problem and that has not changed nor does it have anything to do with China.
Nope; like it or not you got yourselves into this pit and you're just going to have to suck it up and ride it out, hopefully with a lesson learned, but I have my doubts about that last bit.
Few to manage them. I'm always amazed walking through our facilities how few are needed to actually run things now. Automation in the next few decades will cost many times as many jobs as trade ever did. We have no dotcom or any other boom to offset this loss to come.
1st, US Manufacturers are already moving out of China and into cheaper countries like the Phillipines, Thailand, Indonesia, Guatemala, Mexico, and even Africa. Cutting China off won't bring jobs back to the states.
2nd, Americans don't want to pay the price that "made in USA" mandates. American factory workers make higher wages and have higher benefits (and often pesky unions to deal with) that drive up manufacturing costs. Will you pay $30 for a "Made in USA" cotton t shirt vs $5 at Old Navy? Will you pay $150 for Made in USA jeans vs $25 at Wal Mart or Target? Will you pay $200 for a toaster? Or $1,200 for an iPhone?
You're advocating the purest form of isolationism there is. I'm wondering if you're actually serious about this?
How would that dovetail with needing natural resources like precious metals and stuff you need to make everything from catalytic convertors to radioactive isotopes for medicinal purposes. Do you expect the rest of the world to just roll over and play dead while you default all over the place and still demand stuff come your way?
China is not to be taken lightly regardless of what people may say on here. You won't use Nukes in any exchange ever again. There's just too many folks out there that can fire them back at you or bring them right into your living room with your pizza so how do you see a really angry China reponding to this. Do you simply believe they'd bellyache but suck it up? I don't.
You currently have a large military complex that needs constant nourishment. Where's the money going to come from to keep them happy. Who they going to sell their stuff to with the U.S. now being their only puchaser?
You can't make stuff in the U.S. of A. because your shareholders want those dividends and they run the show like it or not. Capital expenditures to bring stuff back to your shores would wipe out a couple of years worth of investment return at the very least. Soros, Buffet, Gates et-al would be even more formidable foes with your scenario.
What I find amazing is you still allow guys like Dodds and Franks to sit in the big house with impunity while you castigate China for your predicament. Those should have been the first two individuals to take the hit, but nope; you throw the blame at the wall and hope some will stick.
You individuals out there that thought they could use a sub-prime mortgage to fund a lavish lifestyle and are now whining are the problem and that has not changed nor does it have anything to do with China.
Nope; like it or not you got yourselves into this pit and you're just going to have to suck it up and ride it out, hopefully with a lesson learned, but I have my doubts about that last bit.
I wanted to put forth the most extreme plan I could think of perhaps some modified version of it would be more plausible. A 10 year plan to balance the budget, replace the tax system with a tariff system and bring industry back here.
Perhaps even some sort of debt forgiveness. Look, we have been taking care of the world for way too long. The wars, aid money all over the place. troops in Germany, Japan, S. Korea. Paying huge sums to the IMF, Israel, the UN. It goes on and on. Take all of that away and would probably have no debt. Lets cut it in half, make it manageable.
We need a leader who can take a tough stand and tell the rest of the world, we are changing the rules and this is how it is going to be.
Isolationism has its flaws, but free trade, NAFTA, etc. has benefited other countries way more than it has benefited us. Easy credit over the past 10 or 20 years masked what was really going on in the economy and when that vanished we now see where we are.
We have had tariffs since the beginning in this country. I think its a better way of generating revenue than a personal or corporate income tax. Yes it indirectly taxes people by prices being higher on imported items, but it protects our industries. Maybe its too late, I don't know.
1st, US Manufacturers are already moving out of China and into cheaper countries like the Phillipines, Thailand, Indonesia, Guatemala, Mexico, and even Africa. Cutting China off won't bring jobs back to the states.
2nd, Americans don't want to pay the price that "made in USA" mandates. American factory workers make higher wages and have higher benefits (and often pesky unions to deal with) that drive up manufacturing costs. Will you pay $30 for a "Made in USA" cotton t shirt vs $5 at Old Navy? Will you pay $150 for Made in USA jeans vs $25 at Wal Mart or Target? Will you pay $200 for a toaster? Or $1,200 for an iPhone?
That's a bit simplistic. That would assume that those items cost proportionally that much when they were made in the US, and they didn't. While Wal-Mart et al. do pass some of the savings onto the consumer when they offshore (and it's not much), the rest of it goes to inflate their bottom lines. And we get crappy products in return. Over the past few years, I've noticed that the clothes I buy are getting progressively worse in quality, especially in stitching and buttons that fall off not long after purchase. It makes sense - the purchasing price hasn't gone up that much, and manufacturing costs have risen lots, so quality is the first thing to go.
I'm going to give you an example of something made in America that is not expensive and of good quality - Anchor glass bake ware. The problem with many American-made consumer goods is that they've acquired a cachet, and stores use that as an excuse to charge more, sometimes MUCH more (see: American Apparel). It really doesn't have to be that way.
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