Taboo discussions on race and genetics (generation, stats, Canada, Minnesota)
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Let me just take your example of East Africans dominating the middle and long distances.
1) It is not just genes per-se but gene expression - which is influenced by many different factors from diet to hormornal and chemical interactions.
2) The number of East Africans that take-up running is tremendous compared to Western Nations - even the black population in America is not a factor in the long distances. The pool to choose from is huge.
3) East Africans have Admixture by virtue of thier poximity and history with the Middle East and Europe - so just because they 'look' black does not mean we should attribute it to those genes that code for Skin color - which by the way there are 5 (if I am not mistaken) and that have nothing to do with athletic ability.
4) Regarding number 1 there size is realtively alot more frail than even the small American or European runners - efficency - but that can be attributed not to a certain gene or genes but the expression of those genes. Therefore, if you go looking for a gene that is responsible for their success and it is a result of the above you will not find it.
Anyway, that is just a few points. The times that they have approached are not far ahead especially with a person like Seb Coe (British 800m runner) who ran in the late 70' early 80's and is still the number 3 all-time fastest and was number 2 until just last year.
In the 1500m race Guerrouj (white middle eastern looking) holds a very strong WR and is #2 in the 5000m.
Maybe you can tell us what genes are at play in the races that the other races do not have?
You mean the OP's general statistics wouldn't affect how you would bet?
but that being said no European is ever going to run times like Usain bolt.
Neither are Africans or African Americans.
One of the ironies regarding genetics and body type is that in many ways Bolt broke the stereo type in many ways. Previously a runner of Bolt's height (6'5") would have been dissuaded by most coaches are just too tall for the 100 or 200 meters which have historically been the provence of sprinters of average or below average height. Conventional wisdom would have said that the 100 meters is too short of a race for a big man like Bolt to unwind and would have relegated him to the 400 and 800 meters.
Frankly, I don't have the answer, but I do recall one going to a track meet for the all white flight "Christian" academies around Jackson Mississippi and being told by the track coach, in front of his runners, that I would see any 9.5 times at the meet because there were "too many white boys." Now I don't know how certain physical stereotypes held by coaches, and there have been hundreds over the years in every sport and every position, but I can't help but think that this plays some role in the equation.
Another point that I think deserves attention is the fact that if you took the times of all world class sprinters, through them in a regression the spread would not be all that statistically significant. If a white man can only run a second slower than an person of African descent, outside of the Olympics what real significance does that have for humans as a species?
You ever thought about the many many black guys that dont fit your stereo type? So Im smart good with people,cant dunk and was an average athlete at best. So where does that leave me?
Low 5 % percentile and last guy picked in a game to ten.?
You have to remember, there are still people in the world who don't even believe in evolution! If you look at history & how different civilizations progressed, you will notice definite differences. Why do some progress & expand, while some are still living in dung huts & in jungles,like primitive man did?
those that harp on it 24/7, wish to use it to pursue an agenda.
i find it comical that many of the white posters on this forum who say people use the race card are the same ones starting these threads, essentially playing the race card to pursue an agenda.
My hesitance to post this topic speaks volumes to the controversial nature of the topic of the genetic differences between the races.
This should be interesting.
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Originally Posted by Burb
I don't know if you can reasonably argue the nature vs nurture argument anymore when it comes to athletics. With Kenya in East Africa dominating long distance running. Descendants from West Africa dominating the major US sports. Samoans having their recent success in the NFL. European descendants owning weight lifting. Asians being so prolific in agility sports such as figure skating and gymnastics. Saying that certain groups have a propensity to be gifted at something is no different than saying that if I were 6'8" my children would have a better chance of being tall than kids of a 5'2" parent.
Actually things get a little funny with humans when it comes to a low calorie diet. It's been found that the human body increases certain aspects of itself when they're in perpetual hunger. The mind doesn't shut down because you are lacking food, it becomes more active and for good reason.
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Originally Posted by Burb
I'd like to see where this goes. With 85% of the NBA players being from a group that represents 12% of the population is this discussion still a taboo or have we reached a point where we can discuss our genetic differences? Not better or worse, just different.
Yeah right. You still have to input who is making all the money from exploiting athletes who can hardly figure out bringing a gun into a night club or fighting dogs to the death is wrong.
Just because someone is bigger and faster doesn't mean they're badder and smarter.
The phrase bigger, faster, stronger, smarter is an equation. If you're big enough to kill those who are smarter and if you're badder than those who are smarter then you might win. But if you're up against someone who is bigger, faster, stronger and smarter then you have a real problem.
Why can scientists/geneticists tell the race of an individual from a skull?
They can determine genetic heritage.
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Why are certain races predisposed to certain diseases?
See above.
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I suppose gender is a social construct too.
Is this like the "if we allow gays to marry then what is next a dog argument"?
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Do some research written prior to the politically approved nonsense that passes it self off as science today.
Perhaps something from the 19th century perhaps, an era you may feel more comfortable with.
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Acknowledging that race is real is no more racist than acknowledging my grandmother is old makes me an ageist.
There is a middle ground, acknowledging race precludes a great deal of understand of human genetics and is thus a far less sophisticated analysis of who we are as humans.
The easiest way to understand racial differences is to understand individual differences. Human beings aren't clones of one another. Practically anyone can recognize that no two persons are alike(except identical twins and even they have some differences). If you can accept that no two persons are the same, then it only follows that no two groups are the same, since a group of people is just a collection of individuals. You could take any two groups, made of random people from any race, and the chances that the two groups would match up on all measures are so small, it's virtually impossible. You would need the exact same percentage of every measured trait in both groups to have equal groups and that's not going to happen.
But the main idea that gets lost in these discussions is that when comparing groups, you are just looking at averages. You could say that east Africans have better long distance runners, on average, but that doesn't mean that every east African is a great long distance runner or that there aren't persons from other parts of the world that are also excellent long distance runners. It's just that east Africans have a higher percentage of great long distance runners. The same goes for any other quality or trait that we can assign to various human groups around the world.
The easiest way to understand it all is that as a life form becomes more impoverished it doesn't take it standing still.
It will shrink itself and focus itself on obtaining a sustainable diet.
What this means is that everything on the entire planet is looking for an equilibrium.
Everything meaning all encompassing.
This shouldn't be a surprise considering the laws of thermodynamics.
Last edited by BigJon3475; 07-26-2011 at 06:08 PM..
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If you look at history & how different civilizations progressed, you will notice definite differences. Why do some progress & expand, while some are still living in dung huts & in jungles,like primitive man did?
