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Clearly writing laws havent ended the practice has it? So the solution is writing more laws? yes, market forces CAN end the practice.. People stopped McDonalds to change their food containers, public pressure changed fishing nets, and yes, people can end puppy mills by simply broadcasting the deplorable condition pets are kept under.. Dont think very kindly of your fellow man if you dont think they would stop doing business with bad businesses, do you?
public education hasn't worked. problem is, no one buying a puppy from a pet store or puppy mill knows it's a bad business. all these see are cute, frisky little puppies- they don't see the puppy mills and the conditions these dogs come from. despite all the outcry and PSAs regarding puppy mills, thousands of puppies are sold every year. ever walk into a Petco or Petsmart the first couple of weeks in January and see all the people showing off their new Xmas puppies? I used to volunteer at a shelter and it's amazing how many of those pups end up in a shelter by June, or even as early as February.
no reason you can't come down on both ends of the problems. continue trying to get the message across to the masses while going after the mills w/ increased regulations. hit both the supply and demand
Or even worse.. they sit even longer in puppy mills rather than being adopted by loving and caring homes.. Yeah, isnt that wonderful!!!
Are you now telling me that puppy mills would deliberately breed more dogs than they can sell, just because - well, actually, I have no idea why they'd do that, and I suspect that you don't either.
With this law, puppy mills can either treat their dogs somewhat decent or go out of business due to costs. Both outcomes are an improvement.
It's not going to be free, but that's one of the tests human beings and societies undergo at times: Do we have the courage of our convictions when it's inconvenient?
Dogs arent expected to live their entire lives in shelters, so they should get airconditioning and not suffer from the weather, but people, who are expected to live their entire lives under their conditions, are not afforded air conditioning?
WTF? People, rather unlike dogs, are free to do something about their situation.
We arent discussing "several breeds", we are discussing ALL breeds..
Again, old people can also get sick from the heat, but we dont write laws forbidding humans to be in 86 degree weather, do we?
I was unaware that puppy mills didnt feed their animals.. Silly me.. I thought that resulted in DEAD dogs, that cant be sold.. here you go telling me thats not true...
You obviously feel better by simply attacking me for asking questions.. A lot of things can be said about such people as well..
all breeds can suffer from heat stroke, just that some breeds are more susceptible. ALL puppies are susceptible to it
I don't know where you live, but where I live, the elderly have access to cooling centers and discount services.
guess what, there ARE dead dogs at puppy mills. what do you think the uproar is about? yes, tons of dogs die, especially puppies, from malnourishment, disease, overcrowding, even cannibalism. but they pump out so many dogs, that there's no incentive to increase food costs to save these dogs. in their mind, a few starved dogs is the cost of doing business
and hey, I just call them as I see them. your posts loudly for themselves
Are you now telling me that puppy mills would deliberately breed more dogs than they can sell, just because - well, actually, I have no idea why they'd do that, and I suspect that you don't either.
With this law, puppy mills can either treat their dogs somewhat decent or go out of business due to costs. Both outcomes are an improvement.
It's not going to be free, but that's one of the tests human beings and societies undergo at times: Do we have the courage of our convictions when it's inconvenient?
puppy mills wouldnt be able to judge demand for dogs until after the puppies exist right? Heck, it might actually decrease the cost because puppy mills will need to make up the costs by producing volumes..
none the less, this is getting off topic because no one knwos for sure what will happen.. I just think its ridiculous to require pets to live in a condition not afforded humans..
And it you cant enforce the laws currently on the books, how do you expect new laws to be enforced?
WTF? People, rather unlike dogs, are free to do something about their situation.
Really?? How about children, seniors, homeless? The poor who cant afford ac. They cant do anything about their conditions.. When do we start to give out AC units to these classes of society?
all breeds can suffer from heat stroke, just that some breeds are more susceptible. ALL puppies are susceptible to it
I don't know where you live, but where I live, the elderly have access to cooling centers and discount services.
guess what, there ARE dead dogs at puppy mills. what do you think the uproar is about? yes, tons of dogs die, especially puppies, from malnourishment, disease, overcrowding, even cannibalism. but they pump out so many dogs, that there's no incentive to increase food costs to save these dogs. in their mind, a few starved dogs is the cost of doing business
and hey, I just call them as I see them. your posts loudly for themselves
All breeds do not suffer from heat stroke at 86 degrees.. If they did, then why dont you ban people from allowing their pets outside in the summer? I see, its ok to write laws to affect someone else, but not yourself..
Dogs arent expected to live their entire lives in shelters, so they should get airconditioning and not suffer from the weather, but people, who are expected to live their entire lives under their conditions, are not afforded air conditioning?
Explain that to me, and while you are at it, are you banning people from adopting dogs that dont have AC? NO.. Hey.. why dont you care about the dogs eevee? Remember, you just said they suffer unless they have AC.. so clearly someone adopting a dog by law should be required to have AC right? When are we going to start providing dog owners with free AC units for pets?
you obviously misread my reply. typical
county shelters aren't in the business of housing dogs long term. their facilities are bare minimum. puppy mills DO house dogs long term. see the difference.
and last I check, people had access to AC and no one is stopping anyone from accessing it. even the poorest of the poor can access a cooling center during the hottest days. never mind the sheer abundance of libraries, malls, and other facilities that provide AC. try not to compare apples to cucumbers too much here, mmmkay?
as for the rest of the response, pure silliness. plus, the VAST majority of shelters I've been to had heating, AC, and allowed dogs access to the outside either via kennel access or walks
county shelters aren't in the business of housing dogs long term. their facilities are bare minimum. puppy mills DO house dogs long term. see the difference
Yeah.. county shelters are in the business of killing their dogs.. Do you really want to make this comparison?
But county shelters while their pets are alive, dont need to keep their dogs at 85 degrees.. your argument is these pets suffer from heat stroke.. Clearly if its unhealthy for them to be in 85 degrees, then this would be true FOR ALL PETS right? Not a selective class of society you disagree with..
Quote:
Originally Posted by eevee
as for the rest of the response, pure silliness. plus, the VAST majority of shelters I've been to had heating, AC, and allowed dogs access to the outside either via kennel access or walks
now you're just sounding ludicrous.
I've been to numerous shelters that had the same.. THEY WERE FUNDED BY DONATIONS..
But HOW DO YOU PAY TO ENFORCE THIS? no answer again...
puppy mills wouldnt be able to judge demand for dogs until after the puppies exist right? Heck, it might actually decrease the cost because puppy mills will need to make up the costs by producing volumes..
none the less, this is getting off topic because no one knwos for sure what will happen.. I just think its ridiculous to require pets to live in a condition not afforded humans..
And it you cant enforce the laws currently on the books, how do you expect new laws to be enforced?
And again.. WHO WILL PAY TO ENFORCE IT?
No answers from anyone..
suppliers will stop buying from puppy mills if a demand isn't meet. pet stores aren't going to order more puppies if they have all their space taken up by the last shipment of puppies. pet stores can discount older puppies that haven't sold and/or surrender those puppies to a shelter and, in either case, they lose money. which means they won't be "restocking" any time soon. the puppy mills will find a way to unload the dogs, either through block auctions or other questionable means, but if their biggest buyers, the pet stores, aren't buying, they'll be forced to decrease supply
fact of the matter is, there ARE animal cruelty laws in place in this country that may force pet owners to treat their pets better than some people are treated in some parts of the country/world. don't like it, move some place else where there are no laws against animal cruelty and neglect (I'm sure you can find a suitable 3rd world country that will fit your needs). these people are in the business of mass producing animals and should be held accountable to the well being of those animals.
I also didn't realize that current laws had to be 100% enforceable before new ones can be considered
and I gave you my answer on how to pay for it. don't like it, tough. what some others ones??:
-add taxes to any animal sold in pet stores
-increase pet license fees and fines for those that don't get their pets licensed (as a pet owner, I will gladly pay an extra chunk per year if that money went towards cracking down on puppy mills)
-add extra fees for any pet store selling dogs or cats. they'll either pay up, stop selling puppies/kittens, or go out of business. simple as that
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