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I also think that a lot of the reason no one is shouting out against the war in Afghanistan is that is where a vast majority of folks thought the war should have been fought in the first place and see it as unfinished business from 9/11.
I am always fighting a war as a last resort but, if we do go to war, fight it to win it whatever it takes. Unfortunately, I have no idea what it is going to take. The real problem is that the Al Qaeda are like roaches and the only way to kill them is to kill them all but that would mean killing everyone, including the innocent, and we can't do that.
To be honest, yes, that is about what it would take, and even then there is no stopping these elements from crossing a border into another country as we already know they are.
There are two ways to totally eliminate such an enemy, either by the complete and utter destruction of every man, woman, child, and associate in a biblical fashion, which is to say the least doubtful. Or you can assimilate the culture into your own as Alexander did to several cultures. To achieve this would require a multi-generational commitment with a people that have a culture as far different than ours as to almost be from another planet. Again, doubtful to say the least.
The window of opportunity we had post 9-11 where we had support from the majority of the Muslim world has since closed. For a brief time a third option was available and the general Afghan population could discern why we were there and likely even had a fair number who agreed. The chances of using the carrot and stick method with the native Afghan population now are about as likely as the two above mentioned methods, in my opinion.
Obama has his Vietnam, now it is just a matter of declaring a small victory and job well done and come home or wait until we are pushing helicopters off the deck.
Tell me if I am wrong but you want out and are willing to live with the consequences of that whatever they may be. What do you think will happen now that the world knows that they are sitting on a trillion worth of minerals?
Tell me if I am wrong but you want out and are willing to live with the consequences of that whatever they may be. What do you think will happen now that the world knows that they are sitting on a trillion worth of minerals?
As of yesterday, the soldiers suit cases should be getting packed. Am I willing to live with the consequences, absolutely.
Terrorism is a fact of life, like it or not and I have confidence in our law enforcement and intelligence apparatus to deal with the vast bulk of future attempts at attacking us. Will there be a future terrorist attack that succeeds, probably so I hate to say it but having thousands of troops over there isn't going to stop a shoe bomber from Germany or Canada, or Bolivia or wherever from getting here.
We live in an age of asymmetrical warfare and terrorism, it is something that most of the world deals with far more intimately than we do, this includes the bulk of Europe. I wish it weren't so, but that is just the way it is. Even still, the world hasn't stopped spinning on its axis and terrorism hasn't cause the collapse of western civilization in Europe. This doesn't mean do nothing, it only means waging a new more modern war in a modern way.
As of yesterday, the soldiers suit cases should be getting packed. Am I willing to live with the consequences, absolutely.
Terrorism is a fact of life, like it or not and I have confidence in our law enforcement and intelligence apparatus to deal with the vast bulk of future attempts at attacking us. Will there be a future terrorist attack that succeeds, probably so I hate to say it but having thousands of troops over there isn't going to stop a shoe bomber from Germany or Canada, or Bolivia or wherever from getting here.
We live in an age of asymmetrical warfare and terrorism, it is something that most of the world deals with far more intimately than we do, this includes the bulk of Europe. I wish it weren't so, but that is just the way it is. Even still, the world hasn't stopped spinning on its axis and terrorism hasn't cause the collapse of western civilization in Europe. This doesn't mean do nothing, it only means waging a new more modern war in a modern way.
Do you think the soldiers want to come home? It is still a voluntary military.
Tell me if I am wrong but you want out and are willing to live with the consequences of that whatever they may be. What do you think will happen now that the world knows that they are sitting on a trillion worth of minerals?
Tell us. What will happen? Who will invade Afghanistan? Who wants to go into a hornet's nest where neither the Soviets or the US could succeed? China? Sure, and jeopardize what they enjoy now?
We failed. Time to admit it and bring the troops home. Who cares if there are minerals to chase there? We are fighting an unwinnable battle there. This thing failed so early on yet here we are, still dumping billions into it and letting our kids die because we hate to admit we failed so much. And now we worry about more material things, like minerals.
Let's not pretend we are in Afghanistan for the benefit of the Afghans. Please. We were after Al Qaeda. "Liberating" the Afghans was just a secondary aspect and a convenient selling point. One I was initially behind.
I voted for Obama but to be perfectly honest his stance on Afghanistan was a sticking point. He seemed to be playing to certain elements with that stance and it never sat right with me.
To my thinking his we will start pulling out by such and such a date is a clear path to losing really.We are losing in afganistan as the surge si not workig like it did in afganistan.
There have been loads of US and NATO soldiers killed in Afghanistan in recent weeks, there was even a US helicopter shot down last week and all four soldiers aboard were killed, but there is next to nothing being reported in the mainstream media about it. I wasn't a Bush fan but if these kind of fatalities were happening under his watch the media would have been all over, but are silent because Obama is the Commander in Chief. Obama's saber rattling has done nothing but escalated the war in Afghanistan, and it has cost a lot of American and Afghan lives. He's finding out you cant bribe the Taliban like he does the American public.
Do you think the soldiers want to come home? It is still a voluntary military.
Soldiers volunteer to do their duty and their duty is to enforce the policies our government gives them. I know my kin folk that are fighting in the Middle East would like to come home but since they don't get to make that decision they don't concern themselves with such thoughts, as there is a duty to preform.
Quote:
Originally Posted by texdav
To my thinking his we will start pulling out by such and such a date is a clear path to losing really.We are losing in afganistan as the surge si not workig like it did in afganistan.
I hope so, but with the way the whole trillion dollar mineral thing got floated out there at this point in time, I'm skeptical.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Young Herman
There have been loads of US and NATO soldiers killed in Afghanistan in recent weeks, there was even a US helicopter shot down last week and all four soldiers aboard were killed, but there is next to nothing being reported in the mainstream media about it. I wasn't a Bush fan but if these kind of fatalities were happening under his watch the media would have been all over, but are silent because Obama is the Commander in Chief. Obama's saber rattling has done nothing but escalated the war in Afghanistan, and it has cost a lot of American and Afghan lives. He's finding out you cant bribe the Taliban like he does the American public.
If it were just a case of the "liberal media" wanting to shelter Obama, then I would have to wonder why Fox news isn't pointing this out.
For the best weather-vane, check out Karzai's movements. As Americans, we are convinced we cannot be defeated. However, other people in other countries have no such misconceptions. The Afghans defeated the Soviets, and Karzai appears to believe that America will also depart. Like any politician, he is a logger on a log, trying to gain purchase wherever he can to stay upright.
His attempts to reconcile with the Taliban, while still taking money from America, shows he is trying to handle the rolls until it becomes apparent which side will be up.
This type of behavior can be expected from politicians. Unfortunately, America is losing our soldiers, our money and our honor (what is left of it) propping up what is widely seen as a corrupt oligarchy.
With the world's most powerful military that has an army, air force and navy against a people who have none, we have failed to win after a decade. Our government has had every opportunity, every force at its disposal to win, and has failed. Why should we trust our leaders' failed leadership further? In any private enterprise, 10 years of failure would have never been tolerated.
Now our military and political leadership is asking for more time and more patience. After ten years, they deserve neither.
For the best weather-vane, check out Karzai's movements. As Americans, we are convinced we cannot be defeated. However, other people in other countries have no such misconceptions. The Afghans defeated the Soviets, and Karzai appears to believe that America will also depart. Like any politician, he is a logger on a log, trying to gain purchase wherever he can to stay upright.
His attempts to reconcile with the Taliban, while still taking money from America, shows he is trying to handle the rolls until it becomes apparent which side will be up.
This type of behavior can be expected from politicians. Unfortunately, America is losing our soldiers, our money and our honor (what is left of it) propping up what is widely seen as a corrupt oligarchy.
With the world's most powerful military that has an army, air force and navy against a people who have none, we have failed to win after a decade. Our government has had every opportunity, every force at its disposal to win, and has failed. Why should we trust our leaders' failed leadership further? In any private enterprise, 10 years of failure would have never been tolerated.
Now our military and political leadership is asking for more time and more patience. After ten years, they deserve neither.
^^Yes. This. ^^
Longest war in our country's history and it's high-time we stop pouring blood and money down that drain.
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