Pittsburgh, one of the worst towns for interracial dating? (York: houses, purchase)

[Love2Golf09]

Originally Posted by Lobick

I've never been in an interracial relationship...

Thank you for putting your entire rant into proper perspective.


The Mexican war streets are sketchy. You live a block or two from the ghetto. If your house has bars on the windows, you live in a sketchy area. What color are your bars? I think the black iron ones are very classy.

[Lobick]

No bars, big picture window fronting the street. Never had a problem. In fact, there are remarkably few bars on the window on my street, although some homes do have them. It's a legacy of what the neighborhood once was, not what it currently is or will continue to be.

Just to follow your logic, since I personally have never been in an interracial relationship I am incapable of refuting your assertion that her husband would be killed in my neighborhood because of the color of his and her skin. I reject that notion. Most thinking people would. That is the proper perspective.

Thanks for confirming my belief that your opinions are without merit and should be ignored. My only hope is that macdee425 has also drawn the same conclusion.

[macdee425]

Love2Golf09;18704429]I'd avoid the Mexican war streets and the north side as a whole unless you want to be a widow. I'm a white guy that dated a black girl before and never had an issue with white people in the 'burbs. The black guys in the east end had a major issue with it though. They never said much to me about it, other than comments like "Oh, you must be rich!" But they had no problem confronting my gf and asking her why she was with a white guy...even right in front of me. Trust me, the least diversity the better. You will face far more problems living in a diverse area than you would in Moon or Gibsonia. Just my personal experience. If you were a white woman with a black husband, then Mexican war streets or east end would be fine, but wm/bf relationships are completely different.[/quote]

Well, at this point, I have to wonder if we should even visit let alone consider moving to the area. I haven't received too much positive information regarding where to visit or live in the Pittsburgh area. In my thread about a neighborhood for us, I was told that Squirrel Hill, Morningside, Mexican War Streets should be considered for diversity. Now, I've read not to consider them and look elsewhere. What is that elsewhere?
Again, your information is welcomed.

[squarian]

I've been half of a white/black couple here in Pgh for about six years. Like most Northeastern rustbelt cities, how race and interracial couples in particular are perceived very much depends on a matrix of race and class.

I've never experienced overt demonstrations of disapproval from anyone in Pgh. The East End white bourgeoisie is either comfortable with interracial couples or else they're politically correct enough to disguise their feelings, which for practical purposes amounts to the same thing. Working-class black people seem to be most likely to covertly demonstrate disapproval. Bourgeois black people (and there's a very large black bourgeoisie in Pgh) are less likely to do so, though the men seem more accepting than the women. Working-class white people are more subtle about their reactions, which are probably as much a reaction to our social status as to our race.

I'd have to disagree with the OP (whose opinion is now many years old and for all I know no longer current) that Pgh is "one of the worst towns", if the question is acceptance of mixed-race couples. I'd say the atmosphere is fairly typical of urban America, at least outside of the Confederacy - generally accepting, and if one occasionally picks up unpleasant vibes it's no more than that. On the other hand, if the question is getting dates, I'll happily defer to more qualified opinion - I don't have much experience of the dating scene here.

[soniqV]

The Northside has seen some pretty drastic transition since this thread started 4 years ago. The War Streets are the centerpiece of this. The gentrification had already begun there at the time but not really anywhere else. Now you hear people recommending all different areas of the NS that would have been unthinkable not even a decade ago. Couple this with the fact that the worst parts are still as bad as ever (albeit shrinking), and are right next to the nicest parts, and you get wildly varying experiences.

The tough the thing about race relations is that there is no real accurate way to quantify it other than anecdotal stories. Personally, I think you would find more acceptance as an interracial couple in a less diverse neighborhood, as there is usually less racial resentment in places where one race doesn't feel like the other is trying to move in and change the culture.

Thus I think Squirrel Hill, Shadyside, maybe Lawrenceville, upper Mt. Washington would be pretty decent options.

But like I said, everyone's experience is different. It's no secret that races generally keep to themselves around here. Like everything else, that's changing, but very slowly.

Edit: I'll also add that I fully agree with the post above me. It's all in how you hold yourself where you are. An unkempt person, white or black, might draw unwanted attention in a middle/upper class neighborhood, just like an aloof professional type might draw unwanted attention in/near the hood.

[Uptown kid]

Just like anyone on this forum will tell you I'm not the one who knows the pro's of neighborhoods but all of these neighborhoods are very nice (:

Squirrel Hill~The most affluent and suburban neighborhood within the city

Mexican War Streets~ Currently one of the most popular places and the most well rounded neighborhood in Pittsburgh... Yet 10yrs ago it wasn't!

Mourningside~Old gritty neighborhood with "charm."

All of these places are in very convienant locations and are some of the Burgh's finest. With the War Streets being the most diverse

[macdee425]

How about Regent Square? I've read some positive things about that area. I plan to visit the various neighborhoods to see what 'feels' like us. How expensive are the homes? Initially, we'd be renting until our current home sells. We're a family of 5. Renting, we'd need at least a three bedroom apt or house and buying we'd prefer 4 bdrms.

[macdee425]

Originally Posted by squarian

I've been half of a white/black couple here in Pgh for about six years. Like most Northeastern rustbelt cities, how race and interracial couples in particular are perceived very much depends on a matrix of race and class.

I've never experienced overt demonstrations of disapproval from anyone in Pgh. The East End white bourgeoisie is either comfortable with interracial couples or else they're politically correct enough to disguise their feelings, which for practical purposes amounts to the same thing. Working-class black people seem to be most likely to covertly demonstrate disapproval. Bourgeois black people (and there's a very large black bourgeoisie in Pgh) are less likely to do so, though the men seem more accepting than the women. Working-class white people are more subtle about their reactions, which are probably as much a reaction to our social status as to our race.

I'd have to disagree with the OP (whose opinion is now many years old and for all I know no longer current) that Pgh is "one of the worst towns", if the question is acceptance of mixed-race couples. I'd say the atmosphere is fairly typical of urban America, at least outside of the Confederacy - generally accepting, and if one occasionally picks up unpleasant vibes it's no more than that. On the other hand, if the question is getting dates, I'll happily defer to more qualified opinion - I don't have much experience of the dating scene here.

What area do you live in? We get stared at now and it really depends what area of town that we're in. We get more flack from black men who assume that my husband must have money because I'm with him. Older white couples stare and some look to be disapproving but never say anything. North and south of town, we are received better that in the west. The east is okay, too. We're not looking for or expecting Nirvana, we just want to be reasonably comfortable wherever we live and in this case, visit.

[squarian]

Originally Posted by macdee425

What area do you live in? We get stared at now and it really depends what area of town that we're in. We get more flack from black men who assume that my husband must have money because I'm with him. Older white couples stare and some look to be disapproving but never say anything. North and south of town, we are received better that in the west. The east is okay, too. We're not looking for or expecting Nirvana, we just want to be reasonably comfortable wherever we live and in this case, visit.

We both live in the East End - Regent Square and Squirrel Hill respectively. I'd say the East End is the most "accepting" part of the city - but of course, we are together in public in many parts of town, and I'd agree that the neighborhood's race/class profile matters. We hardly ever go to the suburbs, so I just don't know what kind of reaction we'd be getting there.

Staring is the main reaction, when there is one, for us too - which makes it kind of difficult to say anything on this topic with any certainty, because who can say with certainty what thoughts are behind a stare? Sometimes I can read the expression, or think I can - other times, who knows, maybe my hair looks funny or I've got different socks on.

No one has ever said anything offensive to us, and wherever we've been I've never been aware of a distinctly hostile atmosphere. I think that's maybe the crucial point in this discussion. It wasn't too long ago that you could expect to be asked to leave, or have people get up from a table and move away.

[squarian]

Originally Posted by macdee425

How about Regent Square? I've read some positive things about that area. I plan to visit the various neighborhoods to see what 'feels' like us. How expensive are the homes? Initially, we'd be renting until our current home sells. We're a family of 5. Renting, we'd need at least a three bedroom apt or house and buying we'd prefer 4 bdrms.

As far as size, most of the houses are larger, so pretty much anything you'd be looking at is RS will suit you.

Price range varies enormously, especially since "RS" seems to mean almost anything to real estate people - you can google the Regent Square Civic Association for the "official" definition of the neighborhood. Within the RSCA boundaries houses are increasing in price, but for a four-bdrm late-Victorian or 1920s era house you might expect $200-400K.

Property taxes are not minimal - make sure you know what school district you're in (Wilkinsburg, Woodland Hills, or Pittsburgh) and assume you'll be assessed that district's rate on your purchase price. School quality is also something to research carefully, if you're not planning on going private.

As for the racial issues, RS is mostly but not solidly white - especially in recent years, a small number of houses have been purchased by professional black and Asian people. It's a pretty tolerant area - when we were first looking around, we got to giggling over the Gay Pride flags, because every time we turned a corner, that block had at least one. Lots of "foreigners" - non-Pgh natives - and actually a fair number of genuine foreigners, as in from foreign countries. Very high average levels of education, though despite a certain perception in some quarters that it's a neighborhood of rich people, income isn't that far from the regional average. The learned professions (academics, medical, clergy, etc) are probably disproportionately high for the region - at last count, I think there are something like a dozen Ph.D.s who live on my street.