Squirrel Hill vs. Mt. Lebanon (Pittsburgh, Fox Chapel: houses, neighborhoods, school district)

[jcsinpgh]

We've lived in Squirrel Hill for the last five years, and now we have a baby and are looking to move either to a larger house here, or to a suburb with good public transportation and a walkable business district, probably Mt. Lebanon or thereabouts. We really, really love Squirrel Hill--mostly, it's the schools that have us a little spooked, because we don't really have the money to send two or three kids to private schools and have heard wildly conflicting things about Colfax, Minadeo, Allderdice, and even Linden. Also, it looks at the moment, in the 300-400k region, we could get a little more for our money in Mt. Lebanon, but I'm not as familiar with that area so maybe all those houses have something wrong with them that I don't know about.

So, here are the things we're considering:

1) Schools. Obviously we're interested in test scores and safety, but I'd also like to know more about the atmosphere. I went to NA in the 1990s and I know a lot of people on here like it now, so perhaps it's changed substantially, but I was miserable there. Although it certainly had good test scores and fairly bright pupils, there was a real anti-intellectual attitude among most students and a lot of parents that made you "weird" if you read for fun, or liked math, et cetera. I never want to put my kid anywhere like that. So, I guess I'm also looking for somewhere where it's cool, or at least not uncool, to be intellectually curious. (Possibly no such place exists, at least among public schools, but I'm hoping.)

2) Biking. My husband is a cyclist and currently commutes to work in Oakland by bike, as well as taking long bike rides on the weekends. He really likes the commute from Squirrel Hill, and loves the bike groups that meet in the city. Are there decently safe roads in Mt. Lebanon for recreational cycling? We've only really driven much on 19, which seems questionable. Also, he is thinking he could possibly get a folding bike, take the T with it, and then bike up to Oakland on the jail trail--any thoughts on the feasibility of this plan?

3) Diversity. Certainly I mean racial, religious, and cultural diversity--and I think Squirrel Hill likely wins on that count--but I also mean a diversity of thought and there I'm not so sure. Although I'm personally a very liberal, fairly agnostic, Whole Foods-shopping, Prius-driving--well, you get the idea--I really don't like the idea of living and raising my kids somewhere where that's the only perspective they're exposed to. Sometimes I feel like people here are a little bit too uniformly like us. On the other hand, no one likes to live somewhere where there's nobody like them. I just don't know that much about Mt. Lebanon to make any sort of judgment on this.

I know they're both good places, and we'll likely do just fine wherever we end up. But given the choice between the two, considering what we're considering, which would you choose?

[Copanut]

In the 300-400K range you could get a great house either in Mt.Lebanon or the NA school district.

As to schools, I've never lived in the City so I can't give an opinion. But, having paid taxes to NA, I don't get the same vibe you do about students not wanting to learn. Mt. Lebo schools are excellent, and if you live in the right areas your kids could easily walk to them as there is no busing in that school district.

As to cycling, the South Hills ain't the greatest. Narrow roads with few if any bike lanes. As to taking the T to downtown then biking to Oakland, it's doable.

As to ethic diversity, Squirrel Hill vs Mt. Lebo?

There is a wide variety of people in Lebo, short white people, tall white people, old white people, and new white people. And don't think I'm bashing Mt. Lebanon, that's just the way it is, 96% white people, look it up. I lived there for 8 years and can honestly say there is not a safer or cleaner suburb in the Pgh area. And if you have children you really get your bang for your tax dollar bucks.

my two cents

[MakeItBrown]

Mt Lebanan is about 98% white people (rude, stingy white people to be more specific).

The schools are good, but your children will probably be bullied by the spoiled, stuck-up rich kids.

Sq Hill is a way better neighborhood for diversity.

[BrianTH]

It seems to me that everything besides schools and housing prices strongly favors staying in Squirrel Hill--not that I have a problem with Mt. Lebanon, but if you are looking for diversity, easy biking to Oakland, and already know you like Squirrel Hill, that seems like a pretty obvious conclusion.

As far as schools are concerned, I would have no problem sending my child to the public schools in Squirrel Hill, but that is really a very individual issue. With respect to housing, the only tip I can offer is that the Pittsburgh parts of Regent Square and Park Place also feed into Minadeo and on up, and you might be able to find a very nice house in your price range in one of those neighborhoods.

[likepgh]

Originally Posted by jcsinpgh

have heard wildly conflicting things about Colfax, Minadeo, Allderdice, and even Linden.

Before I say anything else, let me say that I think Mt. Lebanon is about as nice as suburbs get in Pittsburgh or anywhere else (although more diversity would be nice) and if I worked downtown and could commute by light rail, I might prefer it to Squirrel Hill. That said...

Since you enjoy living in Squirrel Hill and since you have 5 years before kindergarten, I would suggest waiting a couple of months until the school year gets underway and then go visit the schools--at least the elementary schools. Call the principal, set up a meeting, and take a tour. I've posted here and there in this forum on why I think the prospects for Minadeo and Colfax look good over the next few years despite a couple of rocky years that have come in the wake of the downsizing/re-organization of the school district. Our daughter is at Minadeo and we have been happy with the school. When our other children are ready for kindergarten in the next few years, we are planning to send them to Minadeo as well. Things can change, of course, and there are a few areas of concern in the Pittsburgh Public Schools, but we think this is a good situation for our family. (In case you want to know, my wife and I both have advanced degrees and are pretty bookish sorts and are definitely trying to give our kids the sense that it's cool to be intellectually curious. Not sure we're the best models for "cool," but that's another story.)

As for intellectual atmosphere, I'm not sure it exists outside of a handful of small private schools. I'm not sure you'll find it in Mt. Lebanon despite the higher test scores--maybe you would and maybe in Mt. Lebanon more than in other suburban districts. But, in fact, I think one is more likely to find it in the very advanced classes at Allderdice than in any other public school in the region. (Did you see the story in the Post-Gazette about the kid who decided to teach a microeconomics course to his buddies after school because Allderdice didn't offer one? The kid's inspiration was Ayn Rand so I'm not sure I approve of the content, but this doesn't sound like the kind of thing that happens in the typical suburban public school.) Mainly, I think that the kind of intellectually curious (adult) types you are describing are disproportionately in the East End so I would think this would carry over to Allderdice (and its feeder schools) more than in some suburbs. Not to say there aren't plenty of intellectual/academic parents in Mt. Lebo, North Allegheny, Fox Chapel, Gateway, etc. but I think Squirrel Hilll still attracts a lot of this population.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by likepgh

Not to say there aren't plenty of intellectual/academic parents in Mt. Lebo, North Allegheny, Fox Chapel, Gateway, etc. but I think Squirrel Hilll still attracts a lot of this population.

Indeed, which is not surprising given its proximity to the universities.

Incidentally, someone else once posted this link:

Social Explorer - Demographic Maps

You can do lots of things with it, including zooming in on Pittsburgh and seeing the percentage of people with various degrees in the different census tracts according to the 2000 Census. For example, there are relatively high percentages of people with PhDs in the Squirrel Hill North area spilling over into Shadyside, Point Breeze, and Regent Square, with a few in Highland Park too (although the highest percentage is in the Schenley Farms area of Oakland--not too surprising if you know that neighborhood). Anyway, that is just roundabout confirmation of your point.

[SewickleyPA]

^^^ That is the coolest map I have ever seen!