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The primary thing I enjoy about living here is the reasonable cost-of-living. As "IndependentThinker" will tell you the wages here are on the paltry side; however, even if you make <$50,000/year you can still comfortably afford to buy a home here. You can't say that for many other large U.S. cities anymore. A recent study showed ~52% of younger adults now live with their parents in this country. Pittsburgh had one of the lowest percentages of its younger adults still living at home, and I believe part of that can be attributed to the reasonable cost-of-living.
I mean my salary is $35,000. My fiance's salary is $27,000. Combined we can live comfortably here. We bought our first home in the city this year. We can (and have) walked Downtown. We can walk to a few neighborhood businesses. Besides a drive-by shooting happening two nights ago right behind our house we still feel safe overall. Our mortgage payment on a 2-BR house is $401/month, and that will drop considerably once our PMI comes off and once our homestead tax exemption kicks in. You can't beat that. So, yes, while it's a drag two bright college graduates are earning ~$65,000 combined here it's acceptable to us because we can afford our home, take vacations, dine out, invest, etc. A couple earning $65,000 combined in many other major cities? Probably renting a studio or 1-BR apartment and/or splitting a 2-BR apartment's rent with another roommate or couple.
I will admit after living here a decade this city has begun to lose its luster for me, and we are no longer committed to living here forever. The winters are just too gray and dreary and bleak for months on end with limited sunlight. The people? I mean I work with the general public, and I personally don't see how anyone on here can say the people here are awesome with a straight face. Very rude and brash. We also feel like it's quite a long hike to a lot of things for day-tripping and overnighters, both of which we love to do. We've "been there, done that" a zillion times for the Laurel Highlands, Erie/Presque Isle, Cleveland, and Columbus.
We're thinking a place like Roanoke, VA might be in our future in another decade or so. Sunnier and shorter winters. Comparable summers. Affordable cost-of-living. People are probably just as rude there as they are here, but c'est la vie. Lots of nearby hiking and boating opportunities. Close to the Smokies or to Virginia Beach (~4 hours to each). Not a terrible drive to Richmond, Blacksburg/VA Tech, Charlotte, Asheville, or Raleigh/Durham either (<4 hours for all). I personally also seem to think Virginia has become a more "blue" state while PA has become a more "red" state over the past several years. You see more Trump signs than Biden signs in PA by like a 10:1 margin in this state.
Don't underestimate the singular politics in that part of Virginia. It is very much one party rule and I think it will stay that way regardless of where things are going in NOVA and the coast.
We visited Roanoke about 10 years ago as a possible relocation spot. Loved the outdoor aspects and the climate (and they do get whopper snow storms once or twice a year, which is nice), but the cultural amenities were pretty sparse. That may be changing. The one thing I recall they were all-in on at the time was expanding passenger rail networks across the state making travel to the coast and DC very practical. If that ever happens, may take another look.
My test to exploring the "vibe" of a city is observing folks at the grocery store, on public transportation and at the libraries. You encounter people going about their everyday business and can gauge how they relate to each other in their "natural element".
I do think that Pittsburgh offers really outsized opportunities in arts, entertainment and culture with a reasonable COL. That's what I would miss most if we moved to another comparably sized but less developed (in these amenities anyway) city.
Don't underestimate the singular politics in that part of Virginia. It is very much one party rule and I think it will stay that way regardless of where things are going in NOVA and the coast.
We visited Roanoke about 10 years ago as a possible relocation spot. Loved the outdoor aspects and the climate (and they do get whopper snow storms once or twice a year, which is nice), but the cultural amenities were pretty sparse. That may be changing. The one thing I recall they were all-in on at the time was expanding passenger rail networks across the state making travel to the coast and DC very practical. If that ever happens, may take another look.
My test to exploring the "vibe" of a city is observing folks at the grocery store, on public transportation and at the libraries. You encounter people going about their everyday business and can gauge how they relate to each other in their "natural element".
I do think that Pittsburgh offers really outsized opportunities in arts, entertainment and culture with a reasonable COL. That's what I would miss most if we moved to another comparably sized but less developed (in these amenities anyway) city.
thanks for the insight....you are so right - you observe people naturally, not as a tourist, to really 'feel' a place. this is why i disparaged Baltimore - it has great institutions, the Inner Harbor, always a great rock scene (for like 3 decades), but I took mass transportation there - not that nice rail system that goes east of the city - i mean a city bus...and hated it and hated the people, some as young as 13 and already insane and 'unwelcoming', shall we say. aside from that, even people working at the inner harbor were crabby and impolite.
this is also why i think toronto is overrated (and so loved in this forum)- its a wonderful city, no doubt, but has nothing on pgh for personal experiences at the street level, in my view and in my experiences.
but i think you are smart to consider Roanoke - it may not have equal amenities, but when you DO want to take hours, a 1/2 day or more, things are not far out of reach.
thanks for the insight....you are so right - you observe people naturally, not as a tourist, to really 'feel' a place. this is why i disparaged Baltimore - it has great institutions, the Inner Harbor, always a great rock scene (for like 3 decades), but I took mass transportation there - not that nice rail system that goes east of the city - i mean a city bus...and hated it and hated the people, some as young as 13 and already insane and 'unwelcoming', shall we say. aside from that, even people working at the inner harbor were crabby and impolite.
this is also why i think toronto is overrated (and so loved in this forum)- its a wonderful city, no doubt, but has nothing on pgh for personal experiences at the street level, in my view and in my experiences.
but i think you are smart to consider Roanoke - it may not have equal amenities, but when you DO want to take hours, a 1/2 day or more, things are not far out of reach.
Thanks. I noticed more recently on a visit to Colombus, OH, using this method, how generally approachable and open most people were. It seemed to me that it was the exact longitudinal coordinate where the "midwest-nice" begins!
Have you been to Montreal? I thought it was amazing and much more friendly than Toronto. But way, way....way, way, way....way, way too cold to ever consider living there. Did I say "way"?
Last edited by Charley Barker; 09-10-2020 at 10:43 AM..
Thanks. I noticed more recently on a visit to Colombus, OH, using this method, how generally approachable and open most people were. It seemed to me that it was the exact longitudinal coordinate where the "midwest-nice" begins!
Have you been to Montreal? I thought it was amazing and much more friendly than Toronto. But way, way....way, way, way....way, way too cold to ever consider living there. Did I say "way"?
haha - ouia, you did say 'way'....('ouia' a casual 'yes' , rhymes with 'way' - see how clever i am).
i lived in montreal for about a year in my youth. yes, cold. 'ouia way cold'.
*lawdy* another Columbus lover....it irks me to no end. i hate cincinatti because of Dante Burfect and the Bengals in general. to me, columbus = cincinatti. blah! (i know, childish reasons).
i have talked up youngstown and cleveland in this forum, though.
haha - ouia, you did say 'way'....('ouia' a casual 'yes' , rhymes with 'way' - see how clever i am).
i lived in montreal for about a year in my youth. yes, cold. 'ouia way cold'.
*lawdy* another Columbus lover....it irks me to no end. i hate cincinatti because of Dante Burfect and the Bengals in general. to me, columbus = cincinatti. blah! (i know, childish reasons).
i have talked up youngstown and cleveland in this forum, though.
You're funny! We need to get back to Cleveland for sure. Haven't been there for almost twenty years.
The primary thing I enjoy about living here is the reasonable cost-of-living. As "IndependentThinker" will tell you the wages here are on the paltry side; however, even if you make <$50,000/year you can still comfortably afford to buy a home here. You can't say that for many other large U.S. cities anymore. A recent study showed ~52% of younger adults now live with their parents in this country. Pittsburgh had one of the lowest percentages of its younger adults still living at home, and I believe part of that can be attributed to the reasonable cost-of-living.
I mean my salary is $35,000. My fiance's salary is $27,000. Combined we can live comfortably here. We bought our first home in the city this year. We can (and have) walked Downtown. We can walk to a few neighborhood businesses. Besides a drive-by shooting happening two nights ago right behind our house we still feel safe overall. Our mortgage payment on a 2-BR house is $401/month, and that will drop considerably once our PMI comes off and once our homestead tax exemption kicks in. You can't beat that. So, yes, while it's a drag two bright college graduates are earning ~$65,000 combined here it's acceptable to us because we can afford our home, take vacations, dine out, invest, etc. A couple earning $65,000 combined in many other major cities? Probably renting a studio or 1-BR apartment and/or splitting a 2-BR apartment's rent with another roommate or couple.
I will admit after living here a decade this city has begun to lose its luster for me, and we are no longer committed to living here forever. The winters are just too gray and dreary and bleak for months on end with limited sunlight. The people? I mean I work with the general public, and I personally don't see how anyone on here can say the people here are awesome with a straight face. Very rude and brash. We also feel like it's quite a long hike to a lot of things for day-tripping and overnighters, both of which we love to do. We've "been there, done that" a zillion times for the Laurel Highlands, Erie/Presque Isle, Cleveland, and Columbus.
We're thinking a place like Roanoke, VA might be in our future in another decade or so. Sunnier and shorter winters. Comparable summers. Affordable cost-of-living. People are probably just as rude there as they are here, but c'est la vie. Lots of nearby hiking and boating opportunities. Close to the Smokies or to Virginia Beach (~4 hours to each). Not a terrible drive to Richmond, Blacksburg/VA Tech, Charlotte, Asheville, or Raleigh/Durham either (<4 hours for all). I personally also seem to think Virginia has become a more "blue" state while PA has become a more "red" state over the past several years. You see more Trump signs than Biden signs in PA by like a 10:1 margin in this state.
Have you visited Michigan? There are a lot of great cities, small towns and outdoors stuff. It also is quite left leaning, trump winning there in 2016 was a fluke.
Hamtramck is the best polish neighborhood around and probably the best east of the Mississippi. Detroit metro has a lot of great places. Royal Oak is another great city.
Lansing and Grand Rapids are great smaller cities. Then towns like Holland, Chelsea, Ann Arbor and traverse city. I would take time to experience Michigan. It’s a great state for sure. You may like it better than Virginia and PA.
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