Mayor (Pittsburgh, Mars, Hastings: credit, price, military)

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by zalewskimm

No Trump fan here, but Biden is no better. Is this all the Dems have?

I'd really prefer to avoid national politics but remember that so many Democrats initially ran this cycle they couldn't even have them all debate in one night? There were no lack of options.

The dynamics that had Biden come out on top were very weird, insofar as he did awful in the first three primaries, came back from the dead in South Carolina, and then swept. I think what happened is that the Democratic electorate was very fickle. All they really wanted was a candidate they thought could beat Trump. Lots of people were more concerned about what "other people" (including the mythical swing voters) would think of a candidate rather than what they thought of a candidate. As a result, once they got the signal that Biden would be the candidate (unless it was Bernie, who a lot of people were - IMHO wrongly - scared of in terms of electability) they all got on the Biden train quickly.

[tyovan4]

Originally Posted by eschaton

(including the mythical swing voters)

They exist. I donated to Montana Gov Steve Bullock's Presidential campaign and would've voted for him over Trump.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by tyovan4

They exist. I donated to Montana Gov Steve Bullock's Presidential campaign and would've voted for him over Trump.

My point is more that it's odd to try and pick who to support in a primary based upon who you think other people will like versus who you will like, because your own perception of what other people believe will undoubtedly be biased/distorted in some manner.

[Doowlle34]

Just a quick thought on national politics here -- certainly the mods often shut that down, although I think there should be some space on a geographically-focused forum to discuss national issues with a "local" crowd.

I also appreciate hearing Eschaton's thoughts on national politics, although I do tend to see Biden's selection as a "triumph" of the "adults in the room" -- especially given that I have lately been tracing the roots of Trumpism to a failure (ultimately) of the Republican nominating process to keep a seriously flawed candidate from national prominence. Again, I've never seen the appeal of Bernie, but for as a teller of a certain variety of "truth," although one that favors policies that I see no chance of being adopted. (On his podcast, Al Franken is fond of re-telling an anecdote whereby Franken told Bernie that, if he introduced single payer, Franken would support the bill, but then Franken quipped, now we just need 58 more votes. In Franken's re-telling, Bernie didn't even crack a smile.) Certainly, if any of the other major Republican candidates that ran in 2016 had been elected, I think you'd be looking at a Republican landslide in 2020, assuming any Republican president would have pursued the Trump initiatives that are seen as successes by the right, including: lower taxes, immigration restrictions, regulatory reform, conservative judicial appointments, rollback of the Iran deal, etc. etc. (And assuming any other Republican president would have taken a slightly more hands-on approach to managing the response to the coronavirus.) And this is also assuming that there isn't something inherent in Trump's "paranoid" style that is motivating his supporters.

[gg]

Originally Posted by Doowlle34

....have lately been tracing the roots of Trumpism....

I think you need to be very careful with blanketing all Trump supporters with a broad brush. I know lots of people that are voting for him and believe me they aren't easy to just throw a label on. The media promotes a certain image, but that is far from reality. There are many in the oil and gas industry that are afraid of Biden because they don't want to lose their jobs. Where do they fit in? There are some that don't want higher taxes. What about them? There are some that just don't like this new liberal movement that has a real bully nature to it. Forcing things on people. Then you have the abortion people, the gun people and more and more and more. Some are just republicans that vote straight ticket no matter what.

You can't throw labels on things if you think at all. Can't do it with race, gender and so-on. There is this pesky individualism of humans that just makes labels seem much too dumbed down. Now you can certainly show statistics that tell what trends are like, but keep in mind, that person with a MAGA hat could be anyone. Maybe someone in the military or police that is tired of being attacked.

Not into discussing politics, but just want to point out the human side.

[gg]

Originally Posted by eschaton

I'd really prefer to avoid national politics but remember that so many Democrats initially ran this cycle they couldn't even have them all debate in one night? There were no lack of options.

The dynamics that had Biden come out on top were very weird, insofar as he did awful in the first three primaries, came back from the dead in South Carolina, and then swept. I think what happened is that the Democratic electorate was very fickle. All they really wanted was a candidate they thought could beat Trump. Lots of people were more concerned about what "other people" (including the mythical swing voters) would think of a candidate rather than what they thought of a candidate. As a result, once they got the signal that Biden would be the candidate (unless it was Bernie, who a lot of people were - IMHO wrongly - scared of in terms of electability) they all got on the Biden train quickly.

I was very disappointed in the Democratic selection process. I just can't believe there isn't a better choice. I don't think Bernie would have had a chance especially in the situation we are in now. People won't want that much change. I like Bernie as a person the best of them all, but he would lose. I guess they want a Washington puppet for now. Hope he doesn't do much when in office. Just speak nicely to all and wait out the 4 years for a real leader to come along.

Oops, you sucked me in.

[Doowlle34]

Originally Posted by gg

I think you need to be very careful with blanketing all Trump supporters with a broad brush. I know lots of people that are voting for him and believe me they aren't easy to just throw a label on. The media promotes a certain image, but that is far from reality. There are many in the oil and gas industry that are afraid of Biden because they don't want to lose their jobs. Where do they fit in? There are some that don't want higher taxes. What about them? There are some that just don't like this new liberal movement that has a real bully nature to it. Forcing things on people. Then you have the abortion people, the gun people and more and more and more. Some are just republicans that vote straight ticket no matter what.

You can't throw labels on things if you think at all. Can't do it with race, gender and so-on. There is this pesky individualism of humans that just makes labels seem much too dumbed down. Now you can certainly show statistics that tell what trends are like, but keep in mind, that person with a MAGA hat could be anyone. Maybe someone in the military or police that is tired of being attacked.

Not into discussing politics, but just want to point out the human side.

I definitely get what your saying -- and I definitely have a lot of Trump supporters in my family -- including a close relative who is former marine and current Pennsylvania State Trooper. So, I definitely understand that these folks want an alternative to the Democratic Party. The issue is that the national political parties do need to serve as guardrails on the candidates, and in letting Trump rise to prominence, they failed in this essential role. Now, I'm arguing that the flaws with the candidate are so significant, so dangerous, that some folks should "take one for the team" and help us get him out of office. Opinions may differ.

[gg]

Originally Posted by Doowlle34

I definitely get what your saying -- and I definitely have a lot of Trump supporters in my family -- including a close relative who is former marine and current Pennsylvania State Trooper. So, I definitely understand that these folks want an alternative to the Democratic Party. The issue is that the national political parties do need to serve as guardrails on the candidates, and in letting Trump rise to prominence, they failed in this essential role. Now, I'm arguing that the flaws with the candidate are so significant, so dangerous, that some folks should "take one for the team" and help us get him out of office. Opinions may differ.

It is an odd puzzle. Lots of anger with the extremists and I have a feeling there are more extremists now than ever, but I still think most people are in the middle, but very quiet as middle people usually are.

I don't feel danger with Trump. If he was a war monger I would. He has to deal with congress, so he can't just do what he wants. He may think he can, but he can't. I do like him being proactive with Israel and North Korea, but that is a tough go as it would be no matter who touches any of that.

Anyway, I hope he loses at this point. Pittsburgh will vote Trump out for sure. Probably the close in suburbs will as well. Trying to get this back on Pittsburgh topic.

Anyway, back to the mayor. lol

[wpipkins2]

Originally Posted by eschaton

I'd really prefer to avoid national politics but remember that so many Democrats initially ran this cycle they couldn't even have them all debate in one night? There were no lack of options.

The dynamics that had Biden come out on top were very weird, insofar as he did awful in the first three primaries, came back from the dead in South Carolina, and then swept. I think what happened is that the Democratic electorate was very fickle. All they really wanted was a candidate they thought could beat Trump. Lots of people were more concerned about what "other people" (including the mythical swing voters) would think of a candidate rather than what they thought of a candidate. As a result, once they got the signal that Biden would be the candidate (unless it was Bernie, who a lot of people were - IMHO wrongly - scared of in terms of electability) they all got on the Biden train quickly.

Black voters in South Carolina overwhelmingly chose Biden. Bernie Sanders was too left for the black electorate that is mainly southern and very conservative (in a black way). The win in South Carolina pushed Biden to the front of the line.

[gg]

Originally Posted by wpipkins2

Black voters in South Carolina overwhelmingly chose Biden. Bernie Sanders was too left for the black electorate that is mainly southern and very conservative (in a black way). The win in South Carolina pushed Biden to the front of the line.

You are going to start realizing something. Blacks are 13% of the population of the US. Let that sink in for a bit. My advise is learn how the Scots dealt with the English. Outnumbered, but got a voice due to intelligence.