Gentrification in Pittsburgh (Penn Hills, Ross Township, Shaler Township: apartment complex, rental market, house)

[gladhands]

Originally Posted by norcider

Where are the working class white people going when gentrification supposedly pushes them out? The suburbs. Seems they have the means (owned their home) to relocate and they chose to cash out. How is that blamed on rich millennials? Not many people here remember what Lawrenceville was like 15 or more years ago, you would not go there unless you had family/friends. It looked just like Millvale did before the breweries and $8/slice pizza joints. Seems to me the gentrification problem can be blamed on white working class as much as wealthy city dwellers. I don't remember a Lawrenceville diaspora of homeless white people moving to an even less less prosperous neighborhood, because it didn't happen.

This. This. This. They happily sold their homes and moved to Shaler or down to the sunbelt. They were not displaced.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by norcider

Where are the working class white people going when gentrification supposedly pushes them out? The suburbs. Seems they have the means (owned their home) to relocate and they chose to cash out. How is that blamed on rich millennials? Not many people here remember what Lawrenceville was like 15 or more years ago, you would not go there unless you had family/friends. It looked just like Millvale did before the breweries and $8/slice pizza joints. Seems to me the gentrification problem can be blamed on white working class as much as wealthy city dwellers. I don't remember a Lawrenceville diaspora of homeless white people moving to an even less less prosperous neighborhood, because it didn't happen.

Admittedly, the bold is only true because the river boroughs (Millvale, Etna, Sharpsburg) aren't in the city, because that's where the "poorest of the poor" in Lawrenceville - the working-class white renters with no equity to even buy cheap homes - ended up moving.

Admittedly they are now starting to be displaced by the wave of gentrifiers who were either a bit too young or a bit too poor to afford Lawrenceville after it boomed in 2011. Most likely they'll move in response a bit further up the Allegheny to the Cheswick/Springdale area, or maybe up to Tarentum or New Kensington. It's not like there's any shortage of affordable rentals in that general direction

[gladhands]

Originally Posted by eschaton

Admittedly, the bold is only true because the river boroughs (Millvale, Etna, Sharpsburg) aren't in the city, because that's where the "poorest of the poor" in Lawrenceville - the working-class white renters with no equity to even buy cheap homes - ended up moving.

Admittedly they are now starting to be displaced by the wave of gentrifiers who were either a bit too young or a bit too poor to afford Lawrenceville after it boomed in 2011. Most likely they'll move in response a bit further up the Allegheny to the Cheswick/Springdale area, or maybe up to Tarentum or New Kensington. It's not like there's any shortage of affordable rentals in that general direction

Is there data to support this? Are the numbers substantial?

I've seen working-class whites gentrified out of their neighborhoods through rental increases in cities like Boston, and there was a huge outcry. My understanding is there has been very little of that here.

[norcider]

Originally Posted by eschaton

Admittedly, the bold is only true because the river boroughs (Millvale, Etna, Sharpsburg) aren't in the city, because that's where the "poorest of the poor" in Lawrenceville - the working-class white renters with no equity to even buy cheap homes - ended up moving.

Admittedly they are now starting to be displaced by the wave of gentrifiers who were either a bit too young or a bit too poor to afford Lawrenceville after it boomed in 2011. Most likely they'll move in response a bit further up the Allegheny to the Cheswick/Springdale area, or maybe up to Tarentum or New Kensington. It's not like there's any shortage of affordable rentals in that general direction

I agree completely, and like to add this. There are many areas of this city where rent and home ownership is possible, and they aren't "bad" areas. They may not be as convenient and "walkable" but that's what you have to be willing to make do with.

[SteelCityRising]

Again, if we're telling working-class whites being priced out of their long-time newly-trendy neighborhoods to just shut up and move to the suburbs or to far-flung mill towns and make lemonade out of lemons, then why aren't we telling working-class blacks being priced out of trendy neighborhoods to do the same instead of moving mountains so they can stay in/near their long-term newly-trendy neighborhoods?

Label me a racist all you want, but I'm not going to stop bringing this issue up until that question is finally addressed to my satisfaction in a way that isn't presented as a double-standard or in pure condescension. Until the Penn Plaza debacle I would have been fine vacating my neighborhood to make room for the hundreds of incoming wealthier white techies who will soon be working at Facebook in the Strip so they could walk to work. Now that I see if you put up a fight you'll get your way, which is what's been happening in East Liberty, then, of course, I, too, am going to put up a fight to stay put in/near my neighborhood.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by gladhands

Is there data to support this? Are the numbers substantial?

I don't know of any objective studies. I will say when I first moved to Lawrenceville I knew a lot of transient, low-income renters in some of the nearby houses, and a lot of them did decamp across the river once the rentals became more attractive for students and young professionals.

Originally Posted by gladhands

I've seen working-class whites gentrified out of their neighborhoods through rental increases in cities like Boston, and there was a huge outcry. My understanding is there has been very little of that here.

Again, there have been particular local concerns around affordable housing in Lawrenceville, which is why the community group is building low-income housing, why a community land trust has been formed, and why there's now the inclusionary zoning overlay. I think the response is a bit muted however because so many of the "old timers" have moved on already (mostly willingly) so you have a shell of the old community groups (like Lawrenceville United) and some well-meaning newcomers working together on the issue.

[SteelCityRising]

Originally Posted by norcider

I agree completely, and like to add this. There are many areas of this city where rent and home ownership is possible, and they aren't "bad" areas. They may not be as convenient and "walkable" but that's what you have to be willing to make do with.

Great. Let's tell the people in East Liberty to move to less convenient and non-walkable neighborhoods, too, then, right?

[SteelCityRising]

Originally Posted by eschaton

Again, there have been particular local concerns around affordable housing in Lawrenceville, which is why the community group is building low-income housing, why a community land trust has been formed, and why there's now the inclusionary zoning overlay. I think the response is a bit muted however because so many of the "old timers" have moved on already (mostly willingly) so you have a shell of the old community groups (like Lawrenceville United) and some well-meaning newcomers working together on the issue.

Our councilor also hasn't done all that she could be doing over the past six years (and counting now that she's been re-elected in a landslide) to address gentrification either. To be fair her predecessor (Dowd) should have been all over this before it even became an issue. I was sounding the alarm about rising rents in District 7 many years ago on here and was brushed off---much like I'm still being brushed off.

[norcider]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

Great. Let's tell the people in East Liberty to move to less convenient and non-walkable neighborhoods, too, then, right?

They're in dire fiscal circumstances man, they live below the poverty line, what do you want to hear? I'd be willing to bet most poor white families still have more than the average poor black family. Edit to add; that's exactly what they are doing, they are going wherever they can, jitneys are a lifeline.

[SteelCityRising]

Originally Posted by norcider

They're in dire fiscal circumstances man, they live below the poverty line, what do you want to hear? I'd be willing to bet most poor white families still have more than the average poor black family.

Again, why is it that poor white families should be expected to move out of the way of progress so affluent whites can move in and "improve the city", but poor black families should be given generous financial stipends, media coverage, time with the mayor, relocation assistance, etc. in order to stay in their neighborhood of choice or an adjacent one?

If poor white families are being told "move to Springdale or Coraopolis..." then poor black families should be told "move to Duquesne or Clairton..."

If we are truly starting to see an inversion occur with wealthier white people moving into the city from the suburbs and from out-of-state and displacing poorer white and black people out into the suburbs, then the poorer white and black people being displaced should be treated equally.

Also, as I said as long as I'm no longer single and am now working ~55 hours per week my partner and I can weather future rent increases associated with Facebook moving to the Strip soon. This isn't about "me" in particular despite many on here trying to make it as such. It's about having concern about those who are in the situation of the lower-income white households I know who have already been displaced---just quietly without protesting for some reason. I was in danger of being displaced before we decided to cohabitate for financial reasons.

Why is nobody advocating for other long-term lower-income white renters? Why is the solution for them "get out of the way of Facebook" while the solution for poorer black people being displaced by techie whites in East Liberty is "let's move mountains and get the mayor and media involved..." Why should poor whites be forced into suburbia while poor blacks are allowed to stay in the city? Is it the idealization of affluent whites to live in a city of just affluent whites and poor blacks someday while poor whites are "outta sight; outta mind?"