Gift Ideas Realtor (Phoenix: flat fee, fit in, apartment)

[wp169]

Originally Posted by MN-Born-n-Raised

IMO based on someone telling you all about what your home needs REALLY means that they are NOT your ideal buyer. They are setting your expectations low. Don't waste your time with them. I'd fire them as a buyer! Anybody who has remodeled lately knows that prices have skyrocketed. Your neighbor's best bet is to buy something updated OR steal your house. You want a person who either can remodel themselves, like the retro look or just wants to get into the neighborhood. That's NOT your neighbor. You are wasting your time thinking about them as a potential buyer. Punt!

Edit. The RE agent who calls you every week sounds like they have "commission breath". You obviously smelt it as well. Follow-up is one thing (and it's important that they do follow-up). Being a PITA is another. IMHO, an overly anxious agent is a flag.

Best of luck with your sale. Let us know how it goes!

Thanks so much to you both for all the info. Will do!

[Greenvalleyfan]

Originally Posted by wp169

This is why selling my house scares me, I haven't bought or sold any property in 20 years, the business has changed, and "I know what I don't know." The agent I have contact with now sold a house on my street in one week in 2019 for $750,000, I was shocked at the high price the seller got for it. I saw his realtor's name on the realtor sign in front of his house, researched his ratings (he has over 300 five star ratings) and called him about selling my house back then, but it didn't work out at the time with my sibling, the other owner, so we stayed.
Now i have a neighbor who wants to buy my house without a realtor, when I told my realtor he said if I sell it to the buyer without a realtor not to sign any contracts until he looks everything over and he won't charge me, he said he doesn't want to see me get ripped off, his offer made me feel more confident (but I would pay him for helping me, that's the type of person I am). If I find a place to move to, I'll use my realtor as my buyer agent, if my neighbor gives me a low ball price for my house, I'll use my realtor to sell it to someone else. I have no choice but to use a buyer agent, I have no real estate negotiating skills to deal with a listing agent.

If I was to do it all over again I would list it myself. I would take or hire a professional to snap photos. Down load everything to a multiple listing on internet. Advertise with a brokers welcome. This way the buyers agent knows they will make money. A good piece of real-estate sells it self. It doesn't need a con artist to fool you into thinking they are doing so much to sell your home. It's all BS.

[Sno0909]

Originally Posted by MN-Born-n-Raised

I gave you one example of a couple of agents that I worked with. Only because I was working with the listing agent, I got the deal. And we talked immediately after it hit the market. As always I asked, "Is the home worth driving up". They said yes, and I hopped in my car for 2 hours while we talked about the details. Every time I got that call, I bought it. Rest assured, I was getting insider info (why they were selling, what they thought it would take to get the deal done, etc). I bet they never called me "an investor" to their clients. Sometimes I had an inspection, sometimes not. Sometimes it was land. In all cases, the properties were on water.

In my mind, they were negotiating on my behalf (really theirs) while listing the property for someone they were also "representing." And when they were getting ready to list the property, they were already thinking of me as to how they price it. That's a guess. Because EVERYONE was undervalued. And we got it pulled off MLS (part of the offer) when I made my offer on the day of the listing. No, we never talked about how they decided to price it. We candidly talked about how and why I made my offer. I bet the farm that info never got back to the seller. As an example, I bought a small cabin for $50K down, non-refundable, and closing in early February. Feb is the start of the selling season for cabins. So I used the seller's money, didn't put a nickel in the property to jazz it up, and spun it for $40K more (my profit) paying them 3% on the seller fee and a 2% buyer fee. So they got 6% (both sides) on the initial sale and 3% on my resale 4.5 months later. Cut, paste, repeat.

In my current AZ home, I worked with their seller agent as well. The seller developed health issues (that agent should have NEVER told me that). And it was NOT a cash deal because I wasn't liquid. The seller's attorney's son refused to put on a contingency. They didn't get an offer with others on another earlier listing because it was overpriced in comparison to new builds. Now, people smelt a problem. you and I know that's the kiss of death (overpricing a property and holding too long). So I decided to offer $100K under the market. I explained why the market could go down (mortgage forbearance) and she was worried too. I said something like, "I guess you know that you should educate your seller about some market concerns".

But I had a problem. I needed to loosen up $450K and I needed to sell my place in Surprise. So I structured the deal as follows. I underlined "I" because the RE agent wasn't experienced enough to tap into the brain of how to make it a better win for the seller if I defaulted. I made it so the attorney son WANTED me to default. My offer was something like $50K down non-refundable, contingent on me selling my home. I had 45 days to perform. If not, I send in another $10K deposit (also non-refundable) and get another 30 days. To sweeten the deal for that agent. I gave her my Suprise listing. And told her that her client might be more comfortable that he knew it was going to sell (because his agent had MY listing). And I asked her to tell them that in parallel, I was going to apply for a mortgage. And I did. I talked with the mortgage manager customer. I let him know I was going to buy the rate UP (not down) for zero closing costs. And I was going to give him a deal on the stuff I sell to him knowing it would probably be a waste of his paperwork. IF my home didn't sell inside of 45 days and IF I needed the balance, I would take the mortgage out for a month or two. My worst-case mortgage fee was the appraisal fee on my lake home in MN (which was paid for). Of course, they bit. And they took an offer of $90K below the market. Again, because I softly sold why it was worth what it was TO ME. The agent factually knew it was below market. Now, it's worth $450K more than I paid for it. I digress.

An ethical agent would have explained that because they were OVER the market for so long, some people won't look at it. And my offer was undermarket. They should drop it $40K and they will get more action. But why didn't $he?

So, we had a motivated agent that got a double commission. And also, a 2% (buyers), 2% (sellers) contract on my place in Surprise. Speaking of the home in Surprise, I got our price and closed within 30 days. And it appraised for the value. BTW, her write-up was pathetic. I'm talking about spelling errors, etc. So we re-wrote it. For all practical purposes, I sold that home. I wrote the flyers (what features I added and for how much), and highlighted differences like 2x6" construction, etc. I called the local RE players in the neighborhood letting them know what and why it happened. And yep, the neighborhood agent that I told brought in a full offer.

Frankly, that listing agent (and later my selling agent) was worthless on all fronts. For me, it factually helped to work with the listing agent because RE isn't exactly complex. I had many more hints that this agent was concerned about herself, 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. But that would take too long to explain.

I have another 10 RE examples as to why working with the listing agent helps IF you are savvy. Including our kids and a couple of friends. You and I agree it's not for everyone. But to suggest that I didn't benefit is categorically wrong. It's how I am wired. I trust my negotiating skills over another agent who supposedly is representing me. That said, I've run into some great agents and I've taken their wonderful advice. And they are ALWAYS the "players". Not the ones who took my info and pawned me off to their team.

There are so many more examples. For me, I'm going to the listing agent next time too. YMMV.

I can see your point. But I will say that you fall into the 99.999% percentile of homebuyer. The vast majority of people reading your posts will have zero idea what you're talking about. For most people, it just makes sense to be represented by an ethical, experienced agent.

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Originally Posted by Sno0909

I can see your point. But I will say that you fall into the 99.999% percentile of homebuyer. The vast majority of people reading your posts will have zero idea what you're talking about. For most people, it just makes sense to be represented by an ethical, experienced agent.

I don't disagree. While I've sold a few places by myself, it's a PITA. We are contemplating selling our Northern, MN home. Within the next few years. It's on a large lake chain (about the size of Lake Pleasant) with 5 restaurants that you can boat to. I am on 9 acres which is rare and inside a couple of hours of the Twin Cities. So the area is desirable. The market is TIGHT. Anything that it prices right will get a full-price offer. Most are cash buyers even over $1M. Surely, I could get some professional pix ($250) and list them on Zillow and other sites for free. Toss it on the local lakes FB page and go after word of mouth. And if I don't succeed, it's not srotting on MLS adding days on the market.

Still, it's a PITA. And you know as well as I do, that listing it on MLS is the gold standard. And a 1% listing fee (when I then drive the sale) plus 2.5% for the buyer's agent will save >>$10K too. I've done that (electronic lock box, pick a brand name that does NOT sound like an "FSBO", and the inquiries and scheduling come directly to me). But again it is a PITA!!!! I'm getting lazy in my old age. In the meantime, I'm busy subdividing the lot to pick up an extra $200K. Of course, the agents want me to list it as a large property as it is more desirable. I'm up $200K while they are only up $6K. So goes their ethics. If I had an agent that was legitimately worth listing it with, that's one thing (the people I used to work with left the area). But the locals are hacks, use cell phone pictures on MLS and their written descriptions sound like they came out of the movie Fargo. We shall see.

But to your point, a lot of people who think selling a house is "easy" have absolutely no idea how much work it can be! I think said it's a PITA 5 times for a reason. MUCH of that income an agent gets is earned.

[Ex New Yorker]

We had a good real estate agent when selling our home. Not so good when buying our current home. She was too pushy and wanted us to sign a contract for our home in Arizona before our home in New York was sold. I wasn't going to buy anything until our old home was sold. This way I would know what we could afford in Arizona including moving costs. We were cash buyers and not about to take out any loans.

[wp169]

Originally Posted by Greenvalleyfan

If I was to do it all over again I would list it myself. I would take or hire a professional to snap photos. Down load everything to a multiple listing on internet. Advertise with a brokers welcome. This way the buyers agent knows they will make money. A good piece of real-estate sells it self. It doesn't need a con artist to fool you into thinking they are doing so much to sell your home. It's all BS.

I guess you mean a FSBO listing. How does the seller deal with bidding wars, contingencies, buyer's ability to qualify for mortgage, etc, etc.

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Originally Posted by wp169

I guess you mean a FSBO listing. How does the seller deal with bidding wars, contingencies, buyer's ability to qualify for mortgage, etc, etc.

Correct.

Like:
1. How can you verify that they have the downpayment funds? And will the buyers be offended by you asking to see a printout of their funds? The perception is different if someone else is asking who is representing you at arm's length.
2. If they are getting a mortgage, how often are you following up their their processor?
3. What happens if the home doesn't appraise for the value? Who is paying the difference?
4. Should you take a contingency offer? If so, how are you going to gauge if their price is realistic? And if your contingency buyer has a pending buyer, how do you figure out if you should worry that it doesn't close in time?
5. What about all of the legalize with disclosures?

6-88. I'll save myself some typing time. A quick Google shows what other 88 things can go wrong. https://www.miamihal.com/88-things-t...in-real-estate (and they missed another 100 that are rare).

In a personal example, I hired an agent to sell the house in 2012. I owned three homes and this was the post-housing crash. I didn't want three! There is a saying: "A home is worth what a buyer is willing to pay." Well, that was very inaccurate in 2012 when they clamped down on bank appraisals. In 2012, the saying should have changed to: "A home is worth what an appraiser says it's worth!"

I had a unique property and I wanted a savvy agent who could convince me they knew how to negotiate with that appraiser. Fast forward, that agent was incredibly unethical. As in, he pushed me to take a lowball offer from someone that came directly to him (sound familiar, someone else went to the listing agent)? I followed up with a few agents who left their cards on the table (I had over 30) and learned he didn't follow up with any of them. Some agents complained that he was slow to answer. And, I paid him well (3%, 3%). So I fired him (told him it was going to get ugly if he didn't let me out of the contract. He did and we parted ways.

Next, I hired a 1% listing company because I wanted control. So I was getting paid a couple of percent (the savings) for a massive PITA. The person who eventually bought had a fire in their home. She managed 100 mortgage officers in a large firm. I mean, that sounded like the perfect person, right? Great income, someone who knew the industry inside and out. Well, I got to know their agent well. And she did not like them and shared the reasons. Again, that's another example of how it's not exactly a "pure" industry. And, I saved money because of that info. I digress.

About that fire... Multiple mortgage companies declined. No, they didn't tell me that right away. Those insurance companies were worried that the fire was arson. So the buyers were attempting to get Loyd's of London-like insurance. There was pushout after pushout. So it went from a fast close to a drawn-out situation. One flag was they dragged their feet from doing the final inspection. It's why I dug into why there was a delay. If someone doesn't want to spend $400 on a final home inspection, that obviously means that they lack confidence they are getting the funds. Oh, they denied it (through their buyer's agent). And I was concerned they had me in a corner because anything that they might find and complain about didn't allow us to decline and part ways early enough. this was 2012. Homes weren't flying off the shelf. So as me being the "agent", I had to delicately push without letting my emotions get in the way which could ruin the deal.

In the end, I needed a solid backup! I followed up with every buying agent that showed a deeper interest and opened the door to contingency offers I earlier refused. Finally, I had another buyer lined up who ultimately got an offer on their home. So while I declined it the 1st time, I needed to sell their agent that there was a VERY good chance our deal would fall through. I wanted them to wait for me. Sales 101. In actuality, I sold TWO homes (my home twice) for the price of one. Do you see why agents can earn their pay?

On the day of the supposed closing which was THE very last day before I could exit the contract, it STILL wasn't signed off on. A reminder. The buyer's wife was a higher-income, quintessential mortgage pro. And I was calling her mortgage officer feeling them out if it was going to happen. In the end, our 8AM appt was pushed out several times. We literally drove down at 4:30 in the afternoon and it happened. Post signatures, we congratulated everyone. For sanity's sake, I had to let them know I had another buyer that I was going to engage the very next day. This was their DREAM home. You should have seen their face as it dropped. They thought they had me and it was on their terms. Their expression was priceless!

During this time, I was busy Googling legalize-type questions and working my butt off. In 2012, the very last thing I wanted was three homes. And I too had a sense of urgency to sell. My point is that selling it yourself can take a lot out of you. It's not like selling some dining room chairs on Facebook marketplace. Anyone who says differently is out of their league.


Does that sound like something you can handle ^^? if so, go for it! As politely as I can say it, this isn't in your wheelhouse. So when I say selling a home can be a PITA, it can be. Plus stressful. I earned very single nickel of my saved 2% listing fee. The opportunity cost was much higher than my savings.

When all of this crap is going on behind the scenes and you only hear about the highlights, it's easy for people to think: "I can do it, you just toss it on MLS". Well, in some sales you are grossly overpaid. But in others, they are simply not worth it! As in, it costs you $4 (opportunity costs).

All the best!

[wp169]

Originally Posted by MN-Born-n-Raised

Correct.

Like:
1. How can you verify that they have the downpayment funds? And will the buyers be offended by you asking to see a printout of their funds? The perception is different if someone else is asking who is representing you at arm's length.
2. If they are getting a mortgage, how often are you following up their their processor?
3. What happens if the home doesn't appraise for the value? Who is paying the difference?
4. Should you take a contingency offer? If so, how are you going to gauge if their price is realistic? And if your contingency buyer has a pending buyer, how do you figure out if you should worry that it doesn't close in time?
5. What about all of the legalize with disclosures?

6-88. I'll save myself some typing time. A quick Google shows what other 88 things can go wrong. https://www.miamihal.com/88-things-t...in-real-estate (and they missed another 100 that are rare).

In a personal example, I hired an agent to sell the house in 2012. I owned three homes and this was the post-housing crash. I didn't want three! There is a saying: "A home is worth what a buyer is willing to pay." Well, that was very inaccurate in 2012 when they clamped down on bank appraisals. In 2012, the saying should have changed to: "A home is worth what an appraiser says it's worth!"

I had a unique property and I wanted a savvy agent who could convince me they knew how to negotiate with that appraiser. Fast forward, that agent was incredibly unethical. As in, he pushed me to take a lowball offer from someone that came directly to him (sound familiar, someone else went to the listing agent)? I followed up with a few agents who left their cards on the table (I had over 30) and learned he didn't follow up with any of them. Some agents complained that he was slow to answer. And, I paid him well (3%, 3%). So I fired him (told him it was going to get ugly if he didn't let me out of the contract. He did and we parted ways.

Next, I hired a 1% listing company because I wanted control. So I was getting paid a couple of percent (the savings) for a massive PITA. The person who eventually bought had a fire in their home. She managed 100 mortgage officers in a large firm. I mean, that sounded like the perfect person, right? Great income, someone who knew the industry inside and out. Well, I got to know their agent well. And she did not like them and shared the reasons. Again, that's another example of how it's not exactly a "pure" industry. And, I saved money because of that info. I digress.

About that fire... Multiple mortgage companies declined. No, they didn't tell me that right away. Those insurance companies were worried that the fire was arson. So the buyers were attempting to get Loyd's of London-like insurance. There was pushout after pushout. So it went from a fast close to a drawn-out situation. One flag was they dragged their feet from doing the final inspection. It's why I dug into why there was a delay. If someone doesn't want to spend $400 on a final home inspection, that obviously means that they lack confidence they are getting the funds. Oh, they denied it (through their buyer's agent). And I was concerned they had me in a corner because anything that they might find and complain about didn't allow us to decline and part ways early enough. this was 2012. Homes weren't flying off the shelf. So as me being the "agent", I had to delicately push without letting my emotions get in the way which could ruin the deal.

In the end, I needed a solid backup! I followed up with every buying agent that showed a deeper interest and opened the door to contingency offers I earlier refused. Finally, I had another buyer lined up who ultimately got an offer on their home. So while I declined it the 1st time, I needed to sell their agent that there was a VERY good chance our deal would fall through. I wanted them to wait for me. Sales 101. In actuality, I sold TWO homes (my home twice) for the price of one. Do you see why agents can earn their pay?

On the day of the supposed closing which was THE very last day before I could exit the contract, it STILL wasn't signed off on. A reminder. The buyer's wife was a higher-income, quintessential mortgage pro. And I was calling her mortgage officer feeling them out if it was going to happen. In the end, our 8AM appt was pushed out several times. We literally drove down at 4:30 in the afternoon and it happened. Post signatures, we congratulated everyone. For sanity's sake, I had to let them know I had another buyer that I was going to engage the very next day. This was their DREAM home. You should have seen their face as it dropped. They thought they had me and it was on their terms. Their expression was priceless!

During this time, I was busy Googling legalize-type questions and working my butt off. In 2012, the very last thing I wanted was three homes. And I too had a sense of urgency to sell. My point is that selling it yourself can take a lot out of you. It's not like selling some dining room chairs on Facebook marketplace. Anyone who says differently is out of their league.


Does that sound like something you can handle ^^? if so, go for it! As politely as I can say it, this isn't in your wheelhouse. So when I say selling a home can be a PITA, it can be. Plus stressful. I earned very single nickel of my saved 2% listing fee. The opportunity cost was much higher than my savings.

When all of this crap is going on behind the scenes and you only hear about the highlights, it's easy for people to think: "I can do it, you just toss it on MLS". Well, in some sales you are grossly overpaid. But in others, they are simply not worth it! As in, it costs you $4 (opportunity costs).

All the best!

Wow, you are a wealth of RE knowledge, I have to finish reading your post later, maybe after reading all your posts I won't need a realtor after all, just kidding.

[Greenvalleyfan]

Originally Posted by wp169

I guess you mean a FSBO listing. How does the seller deal with bidding wars, contingencies, buyer's ability to qualify for mortgage, etc, etc.

The odds are you will have a buyers agent handling the sale. They want to get paid. Real estate agents won't waste their time on people that don't qualify. You will save half of the commission on the sale. This is not rocket science. If it was you would have a lot less bored house wives as real estate agents selling homes.

[wp169]

I just have one simple question. Let's say my selling agent charges 3.5%, then I have to pay 2.5% for the buyer's buyer agent, so it's cheaper to pick a buyer not using a buyer's agent, correct?