Downtown Scottsdale is livelier than Downtown Phoenix!! (Glendale, Chandler: foreclosure, how much)

[stevewarner]

I decided to take a vacation and visit Phoenix because I'll probaby be moving here soon, staying in Scottsdale at a nice hotel in the fashion square-waterfront area.

I want to say I'm very impressed with Scottsdale. Beautiful shopping areas, great places to say, lots of restaurants featuring many kinds of menus with an international flair. Great bar scene, pretty impressed how busy the smaller mom and pop places are. Service is top-notch, friendly, willing to please the customer. Pleasantly surprised how much late-night activity there is.

So then I thought if Downtown Scottsdale is thriving with nightlife then Phoenix's Downtown must be really something to see. No, sorry it isn't. Couldn't believe how empty most of the streets were, nobody walking, not even many cars on the streets. Just a few cabs and half-empty buses. Didn't look like many people were riding the metro rail either. Everything was closed at night except a few small bars.

I figured it must be because it's summer but then I wondered why Scottsdale's Downtown is thriving with activity even in the summer and Phoenix's isn't.

In my short time here Phoenix sort of reminds me of a smaller Los Angeles-----Downtown mostly clears out at night, most of the lively nightlife is in other areas. That's sort of what L.a. area is like too, so I'm wondering if Phoenix tried to copy L.a. somewhere along the line. If so it's a shame because I think Phoenix could really learn a good lesson from the mistakes of L.a. and be it's own city to be proud of.

Just a few of my thoughts, thanks.

[Bondurant]

You must have missed the memo.

[stevewarner]

What memo, Bondurant? I must have been out to lunch.

[observer53]

Phoenix's downtown was a non-destination for decades. Pretty seedy in many areas, with an adult theater right at Central and Washington. With the building of the arena and the ballpark, Herberger Theater Center, etc, things started to change. Since, there's been the Civic Plaza expansion (I see a lot of convention traffic, even in the summer), CityScape, the artwalk area, and other things that are gradually moving things in a better direction. And, there are more people living downtown. ASU downtown has made a big difference. It's getting better, but gradually, and it's not as evident in the summer. The rail is actually pretty busy during the day, particularly commuting hours, and when there is an event downtown.

By contrast, downtown Scottsdale has been more of a destination for many years. And, it still is.

[Frazyo]

Yeah downtown PHX is struggling to even be the number 3 destination spot in the Valley. Tempe and Scottsdale are by far the top 2, with Glendale and Phoenix slugging it out for 3rd, and Chandler on the upswing. Downtown PHX is getting better as well but I doubt will ever catch Tempe or Scottsdale.

[ShampooBanana]

[mod note-- transferred portion of your post in another thread to this one]

Your observation about Phoenix is pretty accurate. Is it more spread out, and there is no place like in Scottsdale where you can easily walk to 10-20 different bars at any one time. The highest concentration of nightlife is central downtown and further north on Central between McDowell and about Osborn. Arcadia has some places, as well, but mostly classier wine bars and the like.

Give it ten years or so and I think you'll see a dramatic change in both reality and perception of downtown Phoenix and how it compares to other activity hubs in the Valley. It's already started and was poised to take off just before the recession hit, but even in the past 3 years things have changed for the better. Old Town Scottsdale will always be an "it" place just because of the money there, but Phoenix is finally figuring out what it needs to be and what it isn't. CityScape helps, and new high rise residences soon to be built, as well as expansion of ASU downtown campus and Roosevelt arts district, but there is certainly much more to be done. It's oozing with untapped potential, and as things start improving you'll start seeing huge influxes of money to help realize that potential.

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by stevewarner

In my short time here Phoenix sort of reminds me of a smaller Los Angeles-----Downtown mostly clears out at night, most of the lively nightlife is in other areas. That's sort of what L.a. area is like too, so I'm wondering if Phoenix tried to copy L.a. somewhere along the line. If so it's a shame because I think Phoenix could really learn a good lesson from the mistakes of L.a. and be it's own city to be proud of.

You're right that Phoenix does resemble parts of L.A. ... however, other than the sprawl, I think we are trying to be our own city & not copy L.A. so much. Downtown Phoenix has tried to improve slowly but surely over the years, and in fact there is more activity there now compared to a decade or two ago. One thing that has helped to a point was bringing professional sports like the Suns & Diamondbacks. Light rail and the ASU downtown campus have also helped a little too, although I don't think light rail has spurred development like some people thought it would.

But there still is a lot of work to do. The things that downtown Phoenix really lacks are: shopping, dining, and fun things to do. The reason why downtown Scottsdale stays active late at night is they have the good restaurants, the bar scene, and shopping ... and most of those places stay open late. Phoenix's CityScape was SUPPOSED to bring in more of this kind of activity, but for the most part it really hasn't delivered what was originally promised. To me, it looks like just another ordinary urban street corner.

Keep in mind also that we have a NIMBY presence here and a government that is swayed too much by the NIMBYs more so than other places I believe. A good example of this was the proposed W project, which would have been a 39 story hotel downtown. This could have been a way to bring more tourists & conventions to downtown Phoenix, as well as possibly promote other development such as more restaurant & shopping choices. But there was a group of activists who protested the development for a really asinine reason (which I won't get into right now). Anyway, a lawsuit was started, and the NIMBYs won, so the project never went through. So what sits there now is an eyesore of a lot & dilapidated structure that pushes people away instead of bringing them in.

[Bondurant]

Keep in mind, though, that when large buildings go up something is typically destroyed. Some have talked about joining downtown and uptown over time with massive building. That means lots of business' and homes gone for the "sake of the city". I'm happy there's some NIMBY action in Phoenix. There's no one to fight eminent domain type stuff without them.

[phoenixmike11]

downtown Phoenix is getting better but still has a long ways to go-there are some new things going on--
6 Cool New Happenings in Downtown Phoenix - Blooming Rock
Angels Trumpet Ale House to open in downtown Phoenix
Matt's Big Breakfast moving to larger location in Phoenix
amd some not so good things near downtown
Historic homes at risk after they're foreclosed

[Frazyo]

Speaking of downtown has anyone noticed that giant advertisement for Los Angeles on one of the new cityscape highrises? What is with that?