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Do you also believe our emotions, ability to love, be philosphical, have moral convictions etc. are the result of evolutionary processes, survival or what have you? What about our desire for meaning and purpose?
Yes, I believe that all of these human traits and abilities are the result of our evolutionary past. Meaning and purpose are human traits that many people try to apply to the universe as a whole but in the end it's just a part of being human.
Yes, I believe that all of these human traits and abilities are the result of our evolutionary past. Meaning and purpose are human traits that many people try to apply to the universe as a whole but in the end it's just a part of being human.
It doesn't strike you as a bit odd that an impersonal universe and impersonal evolutionary processes produced a being that does have these personal emotions and yearnings? I'll have to let you "chew on that" while I go "chew on dinner." Have a good evening, Montana!
That human kind, from the very beginning, has seemed to strive to be conscious of something outside of this human realm. I do not doubt nor question the experiences of those who say that they have done that. I don't think mind is a limited entity: call it spirit, call it soul, but SOMETHING in man's conscious mind seems to compel him to seek that which is outside himself....
Those are very interesting thoughts. Maybe there's something in the nature of human consciousness that tends to seek answers to questions that can't be answered. I wish I knew but when you say that the mind is not a limited entity it suggests that it has the ability to experience or know something that is beyond any biological function. I'll have to think about that for awhile.
Hi LuLu, I knew this one was coming. It's my opinion that the human brain is the result of millions of years of evolution. Just as every living thing has adapted to it's environment and evolved certain traits that enable it to survive, human beings have done the same thing. We're unique in the fact that we create our own environment as opposed to adapting to it. Our large brains have allowed us to use tools and mental abilities to cope with weather, predators, etc. and it's the reason that we have expanded our population all over the globe.
It all comes down to how you believe, I suppose. I believe in God, so that is my answer. Your answer is based on believing in evolution that we evolved and slowly over time, became so incredibly intelligent. By our God, He created the Heavens and the Earth, so everything in and on and surrounding the Earth and the universe was created by Him. God created us in our human form, when He created Adam and Eve. So, I believe it to be the absolute genius creations of our Lord. Now, people can speculate about evolution for their entire life and not come up with a solid unbreakable fact and truth that evolution, was indeed, the only way it occured. It is strongly suggested that it is a scientific proven fact, but let's face it, we humans are not perfect by any means! We make errors all the time. So to say, that it definitely came about this way or that way, by scientific investigations and findings alone could very well be claiming theories as factual.
However, if I didn't believe in God and what He says to be true and I considered the fact that evolution did occur, what you had explained would give me food for thought on our technical abilities, however, it doesn't necessarily explain the more complex nature of our consciousness, the moral behavior and the emotions. Which tends to suggest it stems from something much deeper than just electrical wiring. Why is it so different from any other species around? Why do we experience things that we can't explain? Would it be a technical malfunction of the brain? A halucination?
Why does the soul seem so different from the rest of our being? Or maybe it doesn't to you....??? Do you not believe you have a soul? Or a purpose? A purpose for more than just walking this earth and surviving? Why have morals at all then? We would have no need for compassion, sympathy, joyfulness. What do you think about these things?
Do you not believe you have a soul? Or a purpose? A purpose for more than just walking this earth and surviving? Why have morals at all then? We would have no need for compassion, sympathy, joyfulness. What do you think about these things?
I'm certain that I don't have a soul but that doesn't prevent us from having purpose in our lives and having morals. All of the traits that you attribute to a God or a soul are just as real in my view of the world. I just don't see them as having a supernatural explanation. Love, compassion, sympathy and all of the emotions that human beings have in common are just as real and important if they're the result of our evolutionary past as they would be if they were given to us by a God.
I know that's the point of view of religion but as we all know, there's no evidence that this occurs, there's just faith.
No, MG, we "all" don't know. Some of us do believe and so we don't see it as there's no evidence.
As I have said before, we Christians receive the Holy Spirit when we believe in God. Once you have it, it is unlike anything else. But to receive it, you must first believe and step out in faith. Please read my post in the thread 'If Jesus Really did return...', last page.
This is all the evidence we Christians need, but we will gladly pass around conversation about the beginning and how we were created to try to get you to see it from a different perspective. Can you really, completely disregard that it could be possible? Just think about it for a while. Are you really so closed to it, that you won't even consider giving faith a whirl? What would it take, if anything for you to try it? We've allready discussed big bang and the possibility that something somewhere had to create that. Why not search into it more, about the possiblity that God may really have created these things?
I hope you know that I mean no disrespect here, MG! I enjoy conversing with you and I hope this is not going too OT! Oops!
I'm certain that I don't have a soul but that doesn't prevent us from having purpose in our lives and having morals. All of the traits that you attribute to a God or a soul are just as real in my view of the world. I just don't see them as having a supernatural explanation. Love, compassion, sympathy and all of the emotions that human beings have in common are just as real and important if they're the result of our evolutionary past as they would be if they were given to us by a God.
So, we are simply surviving, you are saying? But with understanding, compassion and love for one another? But without soul?
Montana, you mentioned: "When you say that the mind is not a limited entity is suggests that is has the ability to experience something that is beyond any biological function."
I think perhaps it does. Granted, one must have a biologically, physically functioning mind, but somehow it also seems to go a bit beyond that. I guess I say this because I am thinking about altered states of consciousness. What is so compelling for me is the fact that people have experienced things while in an altered state of consciousness that does not seem to merely derive from their cultural upbringing. (For example, what is experienced cannot necessarily be explained as a projection of their inner self or psyche.) What is reported as experienced is outside of their ordinary, waking, psychological mindset, seemingly out of context...While someone like William James writes about this as "religious experience" he doesn't necessarily categorize it in clear cut terms. What seems to be key is the overwhelming power of whatever the experience was. It makes me truly question what the origins of the experience is....I really don't know, but what seems key in all this is how the individual INTERPRETS the experience: religious or otherwise...But from the writings I have read on such experiences, they have a very powerful, transcendent quality. --And oftentimes the individual is at a loss to explain what or how they experienced what they did...Altered "mystical" states of consciousness...
Such as baptism of the Spirit. Let me tell you I was so much of a skeptic, but once it happened to me, I was unable to deny it. The Holy Spirit is unlike anything imaginable. I couldn't explain it's enormity and magnificence to perfection but I can try: It is like a force that comes upon you but it's not like a feeling like a euphoria or a drunken state, it is more like a peacefulness, you are very much aware, and so you are not unconscious, but you feel the Holy fire of God's own Spirit, which is awesome! And you just rest in the Holy Spirit and God's presence!
If anyone has also experienced deja vu....this could be an "unexplainable mystical state of consciousness" as well. Anyone ever heard all the different suggestions on what this is? It's pretty perplexing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by june 7th
Montana, you mentioned: "When you say that the mind is not a limited entity is suggests that is has the ability to experience something that is beyond any biological function."
I think perhaps it does. Granted, one must have a biologically, physically functioning mind, but somehow it also seems to go a bit beyond that. I guess I say this because I am thinking about altered states of consciousness. What is so compelling for me is the fact that people have experienced things while in an altered state of consciousness that does not seem to merely derive from their cultural upbringing. (For example, what is experienced cannot necessarily be explained as a projection of their inner self or psyche.) What is reported as experienced is outside of their ordinary, waking, psychological mindset, seemingly out of context...While someone like William James writes about this as "religious experience" he doesn't necessarily categorize it in clear cut terms. What seems to be key is the overwhelming power of whatever the experience was. It makes me truly question what the origins of the experience is....I really don't know, but what seems key in all this is how the individual INTERPRETS the experience: religious or otherwise...But from the writings I have read on such experiences, they have a very powerful, transcendent quality. --And oftentimes the individual is at a loss to explain what or how they experienced what they did...Altered "mystical" states of consciousness...
There do seem to be qualities of the human mind that defy explanation but our basic understanding of the inner workings of the brain is certainly limited. I can understand why people will read my posts and wonder why someone will love another person or feel a deep sense of sorrow when a loved one has died. That doesn't seem to be necessary behavior from an evolutionary standpoint if all that matters is survival but what I'm really trying to say is that all of the qualities that make us human from a psychological point of view can still be based on a physical biological explanation. It's very odd that we don't even understand our own minds and how they function even though that's the essence of what we are. I'll be the first to admit that many human experiences don't seem to fit neatly into simple biological functions and many mysteries remain. That's what makes it so interesting.
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It's my opinion that the human brain is the result of millions of years of evolution. Just as every living thing has adapted to it's environment and evolved certain traits that enable it to survive, human beings have done the same thing. We're unique in the fact that we create our own environment as opposed to adapting to it. Our large brains have allowed us to use tools and mental abilities to cope with weather, predators, etc. and it's the reason that we have expanded our population all over the globe.
LuLu
