Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I agree with the child credit, with 2-3 kids and a mortgage to deduct, especially in a high property tax (also deductible) area, you can manage for years without being subject to income tax.When the kids grow up and move out that will change.
Are you saying that people who can afford to buy homes should pay lower taxes than people who can't afford to buy homes?
its really the other way around. the renter has the better tax deal.
take a married couple who rent,they get the same 11,600 dollar standard deduction as the homeowner.
dont forget the homeowner is actually spendind 4 bucks over and above the price of the home to get back 1 of those dollars. he is being taxed on the value of that home through real estate taxes and charged interest on the loan to buy that asset. .
while the homeowner looses the first 11,600 in mortgage interest and real estate taxes to the standard deduction the renter may only pay a bit in state and local taxes and pocket the entire rest of that deduction without spending a penny. its the non homeowner who actually gets to fly the empty seats alot of times on that standard deduction and the ole piggy bank has more money in it then was spent.
Last edited by mathjak107; 10-10-2011 at 03:41 AM..
its really the other way around. the renter has the better tax deal.
take a married couple who rent,they get the same 11,600 dollar standard deduction as the homeowner.
dont forget the homeowner is actually spendind 4 bucks over and above the price of the home to get back 1 of those dollars. he is being taxed on the value of that home through real estate taxes and charged interest on the loan to buy that asset. .
while the homeowner looses the first 11,600 in mortgage interest and real estate taxes to the standard deduction the renter may only pay a bit in state and local taxes and pocket the entire rest of that deduction without spending a penny. its the non homeowner who actually gets to fly the empty seats alot of times on that standard deduction and the ole piggy bank has more money in it then was spent.
After 15, or 30, or 5, or 8 (However long it takes to pay off) Years
The Homeowner doesn't have any monthly rent due for the remaining 10, 20, 30+ years of his life...
While the renter does.
I'm currently a renter, and I assure you, my landlord recovers property taxes, interest payments, upkeep etc from my rent. (it is possible that in some areas, for short periods of time this might not be the case, but the vast majority of the time it is true. Otherwise there would be no landlords!)
AND... when I (And others) have paid off the place for him...
HE profits.
the homeowner has loads of expenses besides rent that a renter does not have.
here in long island just real estate taxes can eclipse rent in many areas. the taxes ,maintaince ,repairs and eventual renovations on owning a home long term work out to thousands a year.
rental real estate is an investment and very different from ones residence.
i can tell you the money my funds made over the decades vs the house i owned generate enough in income a year over time to pay any rent forever.
my home was purchased in ny for 169k in 1987 and sold in 2004 or 2004 for 335k. the same amount in the funds i follow is 1.7 million. no comparison even after subtracting out the rent i would have paid. the returns on that amount will pay the rent well beyond our retirement.
renting and investing generally equal higher cost of housing over a lifetime but bigger incomes from bigger piles of money generated off the other investments made instead of buying..
owning usually shakes out to lower housing costs but a smaller pile of income producing assets as the money is in the house appreciating at a much slower rate.
the homeowner has loads of expenses besides rent that a renter does not have.
here in long island just real estate taxes can eclipse rent in many areas. the taxes ,maintaince ,repairs and eventual renovations on owning a home long term work out to thousands a year.
rental real estate is an investment and very different from ones residence.
i can tell you the money my funds made over the decades vs the house i owned generate enough in income a year over time to pay any rent forever.
my home was purchased in ny for 169k in 1987 and sold in 2004 or 2004 for 335k. the same amount in the funds i follow is 1.7 million. no comparison even after subtracting out the rent i would have paid. the returns on that amount will pay the rent well beyond our retirement.
renting and investing generally equal higher cost of housing over a lifetime but bigger incomes from bigger piles of money generated off the other investments made instead of buying..
owning usually shakes out to lower housing costs but a smaller pile of income producing assets as the money is in the house appreciating at a much slower rate.
Passage in bold:
What part of this is impossible for you to understand:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Themanwithnoname
After 15, or 30, or 5, or 8 (However long it takes to pay off) Years
The Homeowner doesn't have any monthly rent due for the remaining 10, 20, 30+ years of his life...
While the renter does.
I'm currently a renter, and I assure you, my landlord recovers property taxes, interest payments, upkeep etc from my rent. (it is possible that in some areas, for short periods of time this might not be the case, but the vast majority of the time it is true. Otherwise there would be no landlords!)
AND... when I (And others) have paid off the place for him...
HE profits.
As to the numbers you quote... You pick a (short) period in time which is unlikely to ever be repeated.
Looking forward we cannot look at what (In history) is a split second.
So tell me... are all these landlords LOOSING money?
(IF so, I need to go talk to a few people and determine how they are worth millions with those dozens of houses they must be (According to you) Loosing money on!)
As to them being different (Investment vs residence) All that si inconsequential
YOU are refusing to look at rent vs own As another posted pointed out.
show us some numbers that say im wrong! markets blew the doors off home ownership by 400% the last 25 years...... that would easily have paid any rent and left a ton of money over to generate future income well into retirement and beyond.
we sold our primary in 2004 and are now selling our 2nd home and love the freedom of renting. the money we made in the markets over our lifetime will pay our rent forever. will i be at a disadvantage for not owning ? hell no..
Last edited by mathjak107; 10-10-2011 at 01:41 PM..
show us some numbers that say im wrong! markets blew the doors off home ownership by 400% the last 25 years...... that would easily have paid any rent and left a ton of money over to generate future income well into retirement and beyond.
we sold our primary in 2004 and are now selling our 2nd home and love the freedom of renting. the money we made in the markets over our lifetime will pay our rent forever. will i be at a disadvantage for not owning ? hell no..
Just like in the other thread... Your difficulties at reading comprehension continue to plague you.
I do not know, or disagree with your postulation of the last 25 years.
HOWEVER: I do state that the next 25 will be NOTHING like the last 25!
Disagree?
no i dont disagree no one knows the future .but thats not the issue. you made a comment about the fact that i said a renter who invested the money he didnt spend on the house was a big winner,myself included . what was there to dispute about that fact, its pure fact.
i simply said that there was no edge to owning a house in aquiring wealth. it is not important if you have the discipline to invest elsewhere.
no i dont disagree no one knows the future .but thats not the issue. you made a comment about the fact that i said a renter who invested the money he didnt spend on the house was a big winner,myself included . what was there to dispute about that fact, its pure fact.
i simply said that there was no edge to owning a house in aquiring wealth. it is not important if you have the discipline to invest elsewhere.
Bold:
In many places it is cheaper EVEN DISCOUNTING the YEARS AND YEARS of no payments that an owner has.
Underlined:
See my earlier comment. Landlords are not in business to loose money.
i have been in the real estate business as an owner for over 20 years. we own a holding company that holds co-op apartments over looking central park, some commercial property on 7th ave in nyc , a rental in kew gardens queens and a rental in pa. i know all about landlording and being in business for a profit.
rentals that are cheaper to buy than rent are few and far between in decent areas especially in any cities.. on average i have found the difference between renting and buying is anywhere from 25-30% less when the costs are compared on day one figuring closing costs and a down payment..
here in nyc it took around a decade on 2 of our properties at about 3% a year rent increases to cross the line to where our costs were less than the rent.
in pa where our other property is its about 20 % less than buying.
there are down payments ,closing costs and many many expenses unique to owning that make ownership quite expensive in many places..
even where i live now we can buy our apartment for around 300k. we pay 1800 in rent and that includes heat and all repairs right by the water in bayside queens in nyc... just the returns we get on the 300k pretty much pay the rent and it would cost us another 1k a month in maintaince to buy.
we invest that 1k a month and use it to increase our assets which in another year or so will fund our retirement which we will take early next year and pay for a lifetime of housing costs.
we are selling our pa house because even without a mortgage the costs of ownership make it just not worth it. we arent there enough to justify the 600-800 a month carrying costs which is what it runs us after paying cash.
its mostly all maintance,taxes and heat..
the lawn guy,the snow plow guy, the bug guy,the gutter and leader guy, we have to re-stain the deck and porch every 3 years for 1500 bucks a shot because the winters are so harsh.
last time we went up it was 150 bucks to have a bee hive removed and 2500 bucks for a sceptic repair when our field froze.
the list of soft-expenses go on and on with a house..it never ends if you want to keep things maintained . im not handy and even if i was the last thing i want to do is spend weekends working on the house .
but the point is still the same ,depending what a renter does with that down payment money and any savings each month determines how they will do not whether they buy a home or not..
Last edited by mathjak107; 10-10-2011 at 04:53 PM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
