Lancaster, Easton, Williamsport - please compare (Philadelphia, Bethlehem: for sale, condos, townhome)

[Max and Catriona]

Originally Posted by Muinteoir

So tell us more about what your ideal city or area is like. All the things I said are based on broad generalizations, and you can surely find different neighborhood vibes and niches in each place. Where are you moving from?

Moving from southwest FL.

Beyond the criteria of hilly, excellent grocery store and restaurant options, low crime, nice downtown, with some supply of housing in our price range, here is some more about the type of area we'd prefer:

An area that feels upper middle class but in a humble, down-to-earth way. Not the upper middle class that's very "keep-up-with-the-jones's" obsessed with status symbols like where did you go to school, what car do you drive, the botox-filler-plastic surgery stuff, etc. What I want is the upper middle class setting that is prestigious because it is so well kept and special. What I'm trying to convey is kind of like an old money vs new money type of distinction. I'm not saying I literally need to live in an old money section of town but think of it as understated and timeless as opposed to flashy and trendy.

I don't really like a wild party type of environment with a lot of loud drunk people drawing attention to themselves so I would not want to live right near a college or venue that's known for that kind of atmosphere. I know there are colleges in all of the locations I asked about in this thread, but I'm not sure what kind of students they attract or how they impact the experience of living in the area.

I care about health related to environmental factors. What I mean by that is it would really bother me if I moved somewhere and found out there was a cancer cluster or a toxic spill of some kind in the past that still poses a health risk. I care about stuff like water source / drinking water quality, pollution from landfills and incinerators and industrial sites. So if you are aware of any hazardous areas of this kind, particularly around Lancaster, Easton, or Williamsport please let me know.

I don't know if any of that helped narrow it down as far as explaining more about what kind of area we'd like. I'm happy to answer any specific questions to clarify further.

Originally Posted by Higherho

Do you like traveling? I mention this because Williamsport Airport is a joke now and does not have any flights going out of it. Which mainly were connectors to Philly. Takes well over an hour to get to a somewhat decent airport.
.........................
you should check out the Pittsburgh area Western PA is much better than Eastern :P

I do like to travel but these days I'm sticking to car trips. I've always had a mild fear of flying but right now I'm even more spooked because of some recent events. I went through a similar period after 9/11 when I didn't fly for a few years. Eventually I'll do it, there are some specific places I want to visit that would definitely require a plane flight. But I'm not prioritizing proximity to a good airport with this relocation to PA. Another thing is the people that would be coming to visit us in PA live within a distance that driving makes more sense than flying (central NY state and northern MD) so we don't have to worry about them needing a good airport near us.

I wish we would've explored western PA when we were up there traveling around the state! All the recommendations I got in my original thread were in the central and eastern parts of the state, so those were the regions we focused on. I did not get a single suggestion in the Pittsburgh area. I figured there must be a reason having to do with my stated criteria, but I'm not sure what it was that precluded any recommendations in that part of the state.

We really liked a LOT of the places we visited as we were exploring around PA. On the one hand it's daunting to choose between them, but on the other hand it's good to have multiple options. We will stay in a short term rental while we're house hunting, so that'll give us more opportunity to spend time in the places that interest us and hopefully get a better feel for which one(s) are really the best fit for us.

[MarketStEl]

Originally Posted by Max and Catriona

Moving from southwest FL.

I wish we would've explored western PA when we were up there traveling around the state! All the recommendations I got in my original thread were in the central and eastern parts of the state, so those were the regions we focused on. I did not get a single suggestion in the Pittsburgh area. I figured there must be a reason having to do with my stated criteria, but I'm not sure what it was that precluded any recommendations in that part of the state.

This is just my opinion, so take it for what it's worth, but:

Economically speaking, Southwestern Pennsylvania is among the most depressed parts of the state. Pittsburgh itself is doing fine thanks to the strength of its high-tech research community around the University of Pittsburgh and Carnegie Mellon University, but all the counties around Allegheny — the former heart of steel country — remain in the doldrums because nothing has replaced the departed steel mills to this day.

Erie has the lake, but it's also an industrial city still (in a way that Philadelphia is no longer).

Most of the smaller cities in the T (the mostly rural band of counties that stretch along the state's northern border and fill in the gap between Central and Western Pennsylvania) have also fallen from their peaks. Many have their charms, and some have appeal to certain niche groups (for example, rail buffs like me head to Altoona because it was home to the shops of the Pennsylvania Railroad and Horseshoe Curve, one of the great engineering feats of the 19th century, is located just outside it), but again, I doubt you'd find what you seek in any of them. State College, home to the flagship campus of Penn State, is an exception to this rule, but you said you didn't want to live in a college town.

The Southeast is the state's economic engine, and the areas around it — the Lehigh Valley, Lancaster, Harrisburg — are doing okay as well. (Reading is sort of living off its past, though.) Thus you're more likely to find places that look more like what you're looking for and have the vibe you seek in the Eastern and South Central parts of the state.

[pman]

Originally Posted by Max and Catriona

I do like to travel but these days I'm sticking to car trips. I've always had a mild fear of flying but right now I'm even more spooked because of some recent events. I went through a similar period after 9/11 when I didn't fly for a few years. Eventually I'll do it, there are some specific places I want to visit that would definitely require a plane flight. But I'm not prioritizing proximity to a good airport with this relocation to PA. Another thing is the people that would be coming to visit us in PA live within a distance that driving makes more sense than flying (central NY state and northern MD) so we don't have to worry about them needing a good airport near us.

I wish we would've explored western PA when we were up there traveling around the state! All the recommendations I got in my original thread were in the central and eastern parts of the state, so those were the regions we focused on. I did not get a single suggestion in the Pittsburgh area. I figured there must be a reason having to do with my stated criteria, but I'm not sure what it was that precluded any recommendations in that part of the state.

We really liked a LOT of the places we visited as we were exploring around PA. On the one hand it's daunting to choose between them, but on the other hand it's good to have multiple options. We will stay in a short term rental while we're house hunting, so that'll give us more opportunity to spend time in the places that interest us and hopefully get a better feel for which one(s) are really the best fit for us.

there are a lot more people in eastern PA but generally the cities in eastern PA are in better shape but if you're considering towns, Bedford has easy access to Md, is a quaint little town with restaurants, a supermarket, and was built as a resort town (the Omni Bedford springs still exists but most of the resorts no longer exist. not too far west is another old resort town, Ligonier. great little town. I would suggest altoona but it's definitely not upper middle class and is fairly quiet but has the right location and isn't particularly unsafe.

[Jessie Mitchell]

Originally Posted by Max and Catriona

We will stay in a short term rental while we're house hunting, so that'll give us more opportunity to spend time in the places that interest us and hopefully get a better feel for which one(s) are really the best fit for us.

We did this when considering places we might move. Tried a month or so each time in various places, using AirBnB. It was very informative, also fun doing that. Highly recommend if it's in your budget.

[lilacsnlocks]

OP I'm sorry to break it to you but better you know the truth: you are not going to be able to afford what you're looking for. It is sick that $350,000 isn't enough, but I'm telling you it isn't enough.

[PAhippo]

Originally Posted by lilacsnlocks

OP I'm sorry to break it to you but better you know the truth: you are not going to be able to afford what you're looking for. It is sick that $350,000 isn't enough, but I'm telling you it isn't enough.

It would be in the Williamsport area. Can't speak the other 2 mentioned as I'm not familiar with either of them.

[MarketStEl]

Originally Posted by lilacsnlocks

OP I'm sorry to break it to you but better you know the truth: you are not going to be able to afford what you're looking for. It is sick that $350,000 isn't enough, but I'm telling you it isn't enough.

According to the figures on Realtor.com, the median list price for houses in Lancaster City is $300K. In the county, it's $340K.

So the OP should be able to find housing they can afford in Lancaster as well.

Ditto Easton, where the median listing price is $310K and the median sale price is even lower: $225.8K.

In Northampton County, which also includes Nazareth and Bethlehem, the median asking price is $335K.

Where are you getting your data from?

[Jessie Mitchell]

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

According to the figures on Realtor.com, the median list price for houses in Lancaster City is $300K. In the county, it's $340K.

So the OP should be able to find housing they can afford in Lancaster as well.

Ditto Easton, where the median listing price is $310K and the median sale price is even lower: $225.8K.

In Northampton County, which also includes Nazareth and Bethlehem, the median asking price is $335K.

Where are you getting your data from?

I watch the real estate listings in Lancaster with some regularity. MarketStEl is correct here. $350K is enough to buy a house in Lancaster. The OP is pretty specific about what they want, and especially the kind of neighborhood they want ("the feel of old money") and it may be very challenging to find the right house in the right place to meet that expectation, but there are certainly lots of houses in Lanc city and county that a person fortunate enough to have a budget of 350K can buy, and plenty of really nice ones at that. It also will be not near enough if the desire is to buy a new-built house in Manheim Township or any beautiful, unique properties built for the well-to-do, but there are definitely good options in that price range.

[MarketStEl]

Originally Posted by Jessie Mitchell

I watch the real estate listings in Lancaster with some regularity. MarketStEl is correct here. $350K is enough to buy a house in Lancaster. The OP is pretty specific about what they want, and especially the kind of neighborhood they want ("the feel of old money") and it may be very challenging to find the right house in the right place to meet that expectation, but there are certainly lots of houses in Lanc city and county that a person fortunate enough to have a budget of 350K can buy, and plenty of really nice ones at that. It also will be not near enough if the desire is to buy a new-built house in Manheim Township or any beautiful, unique properties built for the well-to-do, but there are definitely good options in that price range.

BTW, keep an eye out for the December/January issue of Philadelphia magazine.

We have a feature on weekend trips. My contribution to it is Lancaster.

[Jessie Mitchell]

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

BTW, keep an eye out for the December/January issue of Philadelphia magazine.

We have a feature on weekend trips. My contribution to it is Lancaster.

I'll look for it!