PA population loss and retention - merged threads (Philadelphia, Pittsburgh: employment, college)

[aewan68]

Originally Posted by Tamika929

Why is Pennsylvania losing population k here's my opinion. Pennsylvania is really really boring, nothing exciting happens here. Most of the people I grew up with end up becoming way too sad or just irritable.

I did not leave PA years back due to it being "boring", it was all because of one thing, my career and opportunity. PA is great for higher education and quality schools, but aside from that many like myself who were born, raised and educated through college in the state, they may find themselves attracted to other locations due to the opportunity that exists elsewhere.

I don't think the old guard of the State Govt realizes what their fiscal policies have done, but it's starting to rear it's ugly head. PA's State Corp. Income Tax is 2nd highest in the Country, even higher than here in CA yet there is a ton of opportunity here and CA's economy is bigger than France.

[BPP1999]

Originally Posted by aewan68

I did not leave PA years back due to it being "boring", it was all because of one thing, my career and opportunity. PA is great for higher education and quality schools, but aside from that many like myself who were born, raised and educated through college in the state, they may find themselves attracted to other locations due to the opportunity that exists elsewhere.

I don't think the old guard of the State Govt realizes what their fiscal policies have done, but it's starting to rear it's ugly head. PA's State Corp. Income Tax is 2nd highest in the Country, even higher than here in CA yet there is a ton of opportunity here and CA's economy is bigger than France.

Regarding your 2nd paragraph, you are correct that PA's corporate net income tax is the 2nd highest in the country, and it has to come down. However, PA does not have the beautiful sunny weather and Hollywood, which together allow CA get away with murder (in this case, murder is a bracketed individual income tax rate system that taxes a middle class family at 9.3% and higher income people at rates of up to 13.3%). Compare this with PA's flat 3.07% bracket. So I wouldn't suggest that PA is expensive compared to CA, because a company and its workers located in San Diego or San Francisco will pay, in total, significantly more for business expenses, taxes, and housing vs. a company setting up shop in Greater Philadelphia. It's not even close.

PA's problems run deeper than taxes, that's for sure. Part of the problem is that from a geographic standpoint, 90% of the state is inhabited by working class people (even though there's not enough working class jobs left to go around). These areas are often remote and sparsely populated. Higher-end industries such as software, solar, pharma, etc. aren't going to open up shop in a place like Lock Haven, PA. So those areas drag down the rest of the state from an economic and population standpoint. The Philadelphia area, and the Pittsburgh area, and even places like the Lehigh Valley and Lancaster aren't doing so bad; it's the very rural and remote post-industrial places that are dying.

[pman]

Originally Posted by BPP1999

Regarding your 2nd paragraph, you are correct that PA's corporate net income tax is the 2nd highest in the country, and it has to come down. However, PA does not have the beautiful sunny weather and Hollywood, which together allow CA get away with murder (in this case, murder is a bracketed individual income tax rate system that taxes a middle class family at 9.3% and higher income people at rates of up to 13.3%). Compare this with PA's flat 3.07% bracket. So I wouldn't suggest that PA is expensive compared to CA, because a company and its workers located in San Diego or San Francisco will pay, in total, significantly more for business expenses, taxes, and housing vs. a company setting up shop in Greater Philadelphia. It's not even close.

PA's problems run deeper than taxes, that's for sure. Part of the problem is that from a geographic standpoint, 90% of the state is inhabited by working class people (even though there's not enough working class jobs left to go around). These areas are often remote and sparsely populated. Higher-end industries such as software, solar, pharma, etc. aren't going to open up shop in a place like Lock Haven, PA. So those areas drag down the rest of the state from an economic and population standpoint. The Philadelphia area, and the Pittsburgh area, and even places like the Lehigh Valley and Lancaster aren't doing so bad; it's the very rural and remote post-industrial places that are dying.

We're all trailing national averagew

[BPP1999]

Originally Posted by pman

We're all trailing national averagew

Hence my support for a long overdue reduction in the CNI.

Also, this thread is about Pennsylvania's population loss.

[aewan68]

Originally Posted by BPP1999

Regarding your 2nd paragraph, you are correct that PA's corporate net income tax is the 2nd highest in the country, and it has to come down. However, PA does not have the beautiful sunny weather and Hollywood, which together allow CA get away with murder (in this case, murder is a bracketed individual income tax rate system that taxes a middle class family at 9.3% and higher income people at rates of up to 13.3%). Compare this with PA's flat 3.07% bracket. So I wouldn't suggest that PA is expensive compared to CA, because a company and its workers located in San Diego or San Francisco will pay, in total, significantly more for business expenses, taxes, and housing vs. a company setting up shop in Greater Philadelphia. It's not even close.

PA's problems run deeper than taxes, that's for sure. Part of the problem is that from a geographic standpoint, 90% of the state is inhabited by working class people (even though there's not enough working class jobs left to go around). These areas are often remote and sparsely populated. Higher-end industries such as software, solar, pharma, etc. aren't going to open up shop in a place like Lock Haven, PA. So those areas drag down the rest of the state from an economic and population standpoint. The Philadelphia area, and the Pittsburgh area, and even places like the Lehigh Valley and Lancaster aren't doing so bad; it's the very rural and remote post-industrial places that are dying.

I lived in a total of 4 states up to this point, I cannot say for the time I lived/worked in PA, when income taxes were actually 2.8%, I was raking it in. Salaries were quite low and being a recent grad at the time it wasn't easy nor could I even find much work in my field, company I worked for downsized operations, I was cut and they later closed that division.

PA even with the perceived low-income tax rate has a very high tax burden rate. Very high property taxes, even the town where I'm from originally the average home prices are very high in relation to what median incomes are along with that property taxes are very high, good schools = higher paid teachers.

"From 1991 to 2014, Pennsylvania ranked a dismal 45th in job growth, 47th in personal income growth, and 48th in population growth."

Commonwealth Foundation - How Does Pennsylvania's Tax Burden Compare?

Gas taxes are way too high as well.

I lived in the Atlanta area for a year, when I moved there I had to deal with a 6% state income tax, though where we lived it was relatively cheap, the salary wasn't so great in retrospect.

Lived in FL for a long time, no state income tax but salaries were quite low and I lived in the high cost of living part of the state, South Florida.

Moved here over a year ago, my salary is offset substantially to make up for it, enough so that I'm doing better here than I did in Florida. Plenty of companies still here, lot's of opportunity regardless of the reports of many leaving for greener pastures, they are not moving to PA though, more like Texas or the Southeast.

That area you described, those parts outside of Philly or Pittsburgh, well those areas have plenty of land and once had lot's of factory jobs, but yet the state lost out to many new automotive factories that popped up over the years in the Southeast, most lately Volvo deciding to go to South Carolina, not sure if PA was even in the running.

Within San Diego County, the overall demand for both business space is much higher than supply and rentals in general go fast. I see some empty buildings in my area, but they are building more in the business park that is new construction, so companies are obviously staying put or moving in from other parts of the state like the Bay Area where the cost of living is even higher.

I don't see people struggling either, even with what taxes take out of their paycheck, 2, 3 or 4 kids + one in the oven is very common.

[bluecarebear]

Originally Posted by aewan68

That area you described, those parts outside of Philly or Pittsburgh, well those areas have plenty of land and once had lot's of factory jobs, but yet the state lost out to many new automotive factories that popped up over the years in the Southeast, most lately Volvo deciding to go to South Carolina, not sure if PA was even in the running.

Research Greer, SC. It started when BMW moved there. SC offered low costs and a right to work state. Realize too that many automotive factories are becoming automated. I read an article where BMW had replaced up to 90% of it's workers with robots in a certain area of manufacturing at the plant since it opened.

[aewan68]

Originally Posted by bluecarebear

Research Greer, SC. It started when BMW moved there. SC offered low costs and a right to work state. Realize too that many automotive factories are becoming automated. I read an article where BMW had replaced up to 90% of it's workers with robots in a certain area of manufacturing at the plant since it opened.

Yep, it opened in 1992 I remember the opening, that area near Greer, Greenville/Spartenburg has flourished since, BMW's investment is huge and the growth really is amazing around the area, I was there a few times over the past few years. There was some automotive in the South prior to that, Atlanta had a Ford and GM plant at one time, use to see the Ford plant flying into the airport.

There was some automotive around Philly, Landsdale had a plant. Also nearby but not PA, Delaware that was suppose to be the Fisker plant, which flopped.

When VW pulled out of Westmoreland, that was the beginning of the end, State lost a bunch on that one, so history states it was one big incentive package to get VW there, only lasted 9 years. I know Chrysler originally started the plant but never finished or used it, so I read.

[ghostee]

Forget about inter-state migration, what about the inter-region migration from within the state? Why does eastern PA seem to be doing better than the western part (Pittsburgh, but more so Erie)?

[RightonWalnut]

2 weeks until we get county population estimates.

[villageidiot1]

Originally Posted by aewan68

When VW pulled out of Westmoreland, that was the beginning of the end, State lost a bunch on that one, so history states it was one big incentive package to get VW there, only lasted 9 years. I know Chrysler originally started the plant but never finished or used it, so I read.

Yes, it was a shell of a building with a dirt floor when VW bought it.