need help composing letter (babysit, legal, teenage, babies)

[rebelson]

Originally Posted by liloulou

I think perhaps the counselor probably has a timeline and plan in place, but it sounds like you are either confused by it or don't know enough about it. I would not write a letter like you're saying and sit down with the counselor one-on-one (just you and him) and express your concerns with him politely and ask if he's got a bigger picture or strategy that you (as an untrained person) don't know about. Don't judge too soon.

If the counselor doesn't have a grander picture and explain his process for the meetings, and comes up blank, then perhaps your concerns are justified. Being that he's the trained professional, you should inquire directly with him first before making your judgements.

I imagine this is a high stress situation for all involved which makes things harder. Good luck with the situation and talk to the counselor directly. Don't do it though an accusatory letter at this point... you are not at all there yet.

I like that plan...clarify his treatment. See if he even has one! Thanks.

[NJGOAT]

@ rebelson -

I do think you are very concerned about your son and want to see him conquer this and succeed. I don't know you or your son and the only information I have to go off is what you posted here. To me it seems that you are very intrested in control.

***
This is from your original post:

Because as for now, I am tired of being 'beat up' verbally by my son, tired of going into these meetings and listening to Charles latest tangents having NOTHING to do with my son or his issues and lastly tired of having to flusteringly run these meetings when I am NOT the counselor but the mother whom her son has major anger at?!

I am now officially on strike from that place. I am not going to the Wed parent session, not showing up at the Thurs family session with Charles and son and not visiting my son on Sundays for an hour as all he does is get angry at the slightest thing that I might say...it's like walking on eggshells. I need a break and can't even get one in the family sessions w/son and Charles so am taking a COMPLETE BREAK until Charles can come up with a better action plan for our sessions together.
***

***
You then posted:

As for having normal conversation, we do have normal conversation. Plenty of the time. More than not in fact. So, for the counselor to need more than 6wks to 'get to know us', to me, is not understandable.

I would NEVER walk out on my son however when he begins to raise his voice, lose control and call me horrid names...well, it's time to get up, leave calmly and let him calm down and see what he can do better next time to control the anger. There is always the next session which I do NOT fail to attend. I show up, and we move on. It's a fresh new day. Is that so prolematic? To leave for that visit when he verbally abuses me? It actually seems to be working out pretty well.

Because of my son's temper and sensitivity, I 'walk on eggshells' when we are together...whether it's in session or just our Sunday visit together. I am not critical, judgemental, and keep the talk light. My son knows he can intimidate me, and he uses every chance he can, to do just that.
***

I was inferring that your desire to control these sessions may be synonymous with your desire to control your sons life. It seems you were fine with him when he was a straight A student and was the son you wanted him to be. I also inferred that when he started to rebel you came down on him like a ton of bricks and tried to control the situation. I don't know the truth as the only person I have to talk to is you and you are contradicting yourself in the space of a couple hours. Given that may just be emotion, but you don't seem to have a clear idea of what you want outside of your son to be the son you want him to be.

I was merely suggesting that maybe your son isn't the son you want and you need to come to terms with that and love him for the person he is. It doesn't mean that you need to tolerate drug use, but it does mean you need to tolerate his other decisions and dreams. It sounds to me like he gets angry with you because you are contstantly trying to make him into the person you want while you continue your controlling ways and refuse to accept the things he may want.

As for the walking out, I don't think you're wrong in a non-counseling environment. At home, I would stand up and walk out of the room and say we'll continue when you're ready to talk. However, you have very little counseling time to spare, so why leave in a fit of your own when he verbally abuses you. Maybe stay in the situation and show him you can't be intimidated by him. Maybe the yelling is the only way he can handle talking about these topics.

As for the counselor I would talk with him one on one and see what his goals are and what he is trying to accomplish. If he has no plan and is just killing time as you imply than I would ask for another counselor. Of course the counselor since he runs the other sessions may have a lot more knowledge of things and what your son is feeling than you do and he may be going about this the right way.

The comments I made are simply inferred by what you posted here. I think you love your son very much, but I don't know if you can respect/tolerate him or his decisions unless they are the ones you would make for him.

[rebelson]

Originally Posted by NJGOAT

@ rebelson -

I do think you are very concerned about your son and want to see him conquer this and succeed. I don't know you or your son and the only information I have to go off is what you posted here. To me it seems that you are very intrested in control.

***
This is from your original post:

Because as for now, I am tired of being 'beat up' verbally by my son, tired of going into these meetings and listening to Charles latest tangents having NOTHING to do with my son or his issues and lastly tired of having to flusteringly run these meetings when I am NOT the counselor but the mother whom her son has major anger at?!

I am now officially on strike from that place. I am not going to the Wed parent session, not showing up at the Thurs family session with Charles and son and not visiting my son on Sundays for an hour as all he does is get angry at the slightest thing that I might say...it's like walking on eggshells. I need a break and can't even get one in the family sessions w/son and Charles so am taking a COMPLETE BREAK until Charles can come up with a better action plan for our sessions together.
***

***
You then posted:

As for having normal conversation, we do have normal conversation. Plenty of the time. More than not in fact. So, for the counselor to need more than 6wks to 'get to know us', to me, is not understandable.

I would NEVER walk out on my son however when he begins to raise his voice, lose control and call me horrid names...well, it's time to get up, leave calmly and let him calm down and see what he can do better next time to control the anger. There is always the next session which I do NOT fail to attend. I show up, and we move on. It's a fresh new day. Is that so prolematic? To leave for that visit when he verbally abuses me? It actually seems to be working out pretty well.

Because of my son's temper and sensitivity, I 'walk on eggshells' when we are together...whether it's in session or just our Sunday visit together. I am not critical, judgemental, and keep the talk light. My son knows he can intimidate me, and he uses every chance he can, to do just that.
***

I was inferring that your desire to control these sessions may be synonymous with your desire to control your sons life. It seems you were fine with him when he was a straight A student and was the son you wanted him to be. I also inferred that when he started to rebel you came down on him like a ton of bricks and tried to control the situation. I don't know the truth as the only person I have to talk to is you and you are contradicting yourself in the space of a couple hours. Given that may just be emotion, but you don't seem to have a clear idea of what you want outside of your son to be the son you want him to be.

I was merely suggesting that maybe your son isn't the son you want and you need to come to terms with that and love him for the person he is. It doesn't mean that you need to tolerate drug use, but it does mean you need to tolerate his other decisions and dreams. It sounds to me like he gets angry with you because you are contstantly trying to make him into the person you want while you continue your controlling ways and refuse to accept the things he may want.

As for the walking out, I don't think you're wrong in a non-counseling environment. At home, I would stand up and walk out of the room and say we'll continue when you're ready to talk. However, you have very little counseling time to spare, so why leave in a fit of your own when he verbally abuses you. Maybe stay in the situation and show him you can't be intimidated by him. Maybe the yelling is the only way he can handle talking about these topics.

As for the counselor I would talk with him one on one and see what his goals are and what he is trying to accomplish. If he has no plan and is just killing time as you imply than I would ask for another counselor. Of course the counselor since he runs the other sessions may have a lot more knowledge of things and what your son is feeling than you do and he may be going about this the right way.

The comments I made are simply inferred by what you posted here. I think you love your son very much, but I don't know if you can respect/tolerate him or his decisions unless they are the ones you would make for him.

I know this story is very hard to get across, 3+yrs in a forum thread. Hard if not impossible to do. Sorry if I am confusing.

Let me clarify a few things that you pointed out. I have never 'walked out' on a family session-the weekly Wed meeting that I am referring to here in this thread. Where Charles in is charge. (haha isn't that a tv show?) Since Charles has tended to waste atleast 1/3 to 1/2 of the hour, at the beginning of every session thus far, we don't get down to any nitty gritty till the last half. That last half has been when my son would get angered and lash out. At me. I endured it and during those 2-3 sessions when this has happened, Charles did take control and warned him to 'tone it down' or else he would get points taken away. Son listened to him. I stayed to the end of the mtg.

The times when I have walked out, have been on a few Sundays (one was Mother's Day) when Charles was not present. The setting on Sundays is an hour (sort of) alone with our kid, sitting at long tables in the small cafeteria where they eat their meals. Each parent/s sit with their teen at this table, kind of spread out and have an hour with their teen. Just a visit between you and the teen. There have been atleast 2 out of the 6wks he's been there, where he has gotten angered at me, to where he was very nasty. I believe those 2 times, I did end up leaving early. Maybe like 10 minutes before the hr was up. I got up calmly and left. That is what I have been directed to do. And when my son gets angry like that, there is NO use in me staying as he doesn't let things go easily.

I am interested in what I said that makes you feel I am controlling. Maybe I used to be but the past years have done me in. I have barely seen him for this past year, and he will only respond to texts.

With his recent and increasingly dangerous behavior, I thank God for every day that goes by, that I don't get a horrible call regarding his safety. He's been living with the dad (this stint) for the past year now. At that home, there is no, to minimal parental monitoring, no + role model, the dad goes to the local sports bar most evenings (is an on and off alcohol and as a teen he did drugs too), brings different women in at night at random and my son basically has free reign there. I could go on. It is not a good situation. Since it's out of my control, son is old enough to choose, it has left me with no choice but to choose my battles. So, I have dropped any hopes of him doing well grade-wise and now just pray every morning and night that my son graduates HS atleast, and is safe....he has very poor judgement probably due in part to the drugs and that he's a teenage male risk-taker. It has been a very scary year for me.

Speaking about control, gosh, I don't even remember the last time I had a conversation with him about his grades having dropped. There's been so much other drama w/him, what I posted above is just a drop in the bucket.

I am curious what you mean by this:
"but I don't know if you can respect/tolerate him or his decisions unless they are the ones you would make for him."

But, you're right. I can't respect or tolerate him for his decisions this past year:

getting arrested x3, drug-related
street fighting w/possibly armed ppl
stealing from friends at parties
getting F's and D's and is close to not having enough credits to graduate HS next year
getting in trouble at school resulting in one after another In-school suspensions
lying
manipulating

Even his alcoholic father is fed up with him. I have given him every avenue needed to improve his life. To get help. Therapy. Get clean. Offered to get him a car, if he could show some responsibility. Even now, in this rehab place, his priority seems to be to get out, finish his last year of HS and go to a college where the ratio of girls to guys is greater. He wants to keep his same best friend, whom right now, on his FB page, this friend is posing with a sig-sauer 9mm gun in one pic and in another pic, is posing with another boy while they both are sucking on a straw attached to a b*ng. Nice. Scares me to death. And ppl wonder why I am upset that the counselor is chatting for 1/2 an hour of each session about the weather.

I didn't even know what pot looked like when I was in HS, nor did I even know what one did with it. He certainly didn't learn his habits from me raising him. It is genetic though. And it's on his bio dad's side in a big way. That's one reason his dad is mad at him right now, cuz he doesn't want son to end up like him. Son has had a stable life with my husband and I. Since he was 3 when we met. My husband is the most laid back man you could ever meet. My son and he got/get along very well. He is the only person my son seems to respect. (he's a cop btw)

Anyway, I don't know why I got on that tangent. The point is I might have been on the controlling side, but no way over the top. Like some ppl! My only real rule was that son did his h/w right after school. And he had no problem with that!

He has been diagnosed with ODD. Has almost every symptom of it. His dad did too at this age.

Not me. I was ms. nerdo in HS. My son lived in an innocent and wholesome household...and now has gangster behavior. I am scared to death for him. Forget about his grades. That is the LEAST of my worries!

Thanks for you input. I do appreciate it. I guess I will just touch base with Charles and ask him what his 'treatment' plan is for my son during our family session.

If you could, pls elaborate on what I wrote that comes off as me being controlling. I am curious. I feel I have given up all control. Like for the past year. I am just seeking some semblance of organization in these once a week meetings, is all.

[NJGOAT]

The tone in your first couple posts seemed to revolve around your frustration that the sessions were not progressing to your liking. You were angry at the counselor for wasting time and were upset that you had to take control of the situation to steer the conversation the way you wanted it to go. I inferred that control was something you may have an issue with. I think you sort of admitted that it might be. You mention that you feel you may have been controlling with your son when he was younger and now his rage seems to be generated by you trying to control the conversation and the counseling sessions. After all he is calm until you start pressing the issues and steering the conversation to what you want to talk about. Again, I don't know for sure, but based on what you posted it was an obvious connection.

As for respecting/tolerating your son's decisions I did not mean that you needed to respect/tolerate his behavior as that is certainly an issue. What you may need to learn to do is respect and tolerate him when he doesn't abide by your wishes. Admittedly you raised him in a very specific way in a controlled environment. He lived up to your expectations until he started rebelling. Again I was simply inferring that you have always guided/pushed/cajoled him to be the person you wanted him to be. This seems to also have some truth to it as it seems you were wondering why I would infer that based on what you posted.

Your son rebelled and rebelled hard against the environment you placed him in and there are many things he needs to sort out, but it seems he is harboring some horrible resentment toward you over something. Maybe the contorlling manner and the elevated expectations were too much for him and that is what he is rebelling against.

I agree that you need to talk to the counselor and determine a plan, but maybe some counseling for yourself wouldn't be a bad thing too. You mentioned that you have tried to do counseling with him in the past and he was resistant. You also said that your friends and family have stated it wasn't anything you did. However, given his animosity towards you, it definitely seems like he blames you for something, maybe there is some truth to that. Think about the things he has said and the stories he mentions and try to put it into context. What about those situations was horrible for him (even if on the surface you were doing nothing wrong) and are you repeating those same behaviors now even if it is subconscious?

He may still be a kid to you, but in a few short months he will be 18 and able to do what he wants without your input. It seems he has grown a lot in the past 3 years, maybe not emotionally, but certainly in life experience and you can no longer confront him as if he is a child. It seems you need to reach a common ground with your son and only then can you start to deal with some of the issues. Unforunately there is something there blocking you from reaching the common ground and even if your actions/words are reasonable to us, they aren't to him.

Again, I'm not a counselor. I watched my aunt and uncle go through something similar with my cousin and they are still battling his addiction many years later. My heart goes out to you, I guess I'm just trying to say that maybe you should consider the angle that you did do something wrong, even if you think it was right.

[twowolves]

Originally Posted by NJGOAT

The tone in your first couple posts seemed to revolve around your frustration that the sessions were not progressing to your liking. You were angry at the counselor for wasting time and were upset that you had to take control of the situation to steer the conversation the way you wanted it to go. I inferred that control was something you may have an issue with. I think you sort of admitted that it might be. You mention that you feel you may have been controlling with your son when he was younger and now his rage seems to be generated by you trying to control the conversation and the counseling sessions. After all he is calm until you start pressing the issues and steering the conversation to what you want to talk about. Again, I don't know for sure, but based on what you posted it was an obvious connection.

As for respecting/tolerating your son's decisions I did not mean that you needed to respect/tolerate his behavior as that is certainly an issue. What you may need to learn to do is respect and tolerate him when he doesn't abide by your wishes. Admittedly you raised him in a very specific way in a controlled environment. He lived up to your expectations until he started rebelling. Again I was simply inferring that you have always guided/pushed/cajoled him to be the person you wanted him to be. This seems to also have some truth to it as it seems you were wondering why I would infer that based on what you posted.

Your son rebelled and rebelled hard against the environment you placed him in and there are many things he needs to sort out, but it seems he is harboring some horrible resentment toward you over something. Maybe the contorlling manner and the elevated expectations were too much for him and that is what he is rebelling against.

I agree that you need to talk to the counselor and determine a plan, but maybe some counseling for yourself wouldn't be a bad thing too. You mentioned that you have tried to do counseling with him in the past and he was resistant. You also said that your friends and family have stated it wasn't anything you did. However, given his animosity towards you, it definitely seems like he blames you for something, maybe there is some truth to that. Think about the things he has said and the stories he mentions and try to put it into context. What about those situations was horrible for him (even if on the surface you were doing nothing wrong) and are you repeating those same behaviors now even if it is subconscious?

He may still be a kid to you, but in a few short months he will be 18 and able to do what he wants without your input. It seems he has grown a lot in the past 3 years, maybe not emotionally, but certainly in life experience and you can no longer confront him as if he is a child. It seems you need to reach a common ground with your son and only then can you start to deal with some of the issues. Unforunately there is something there blocking you from reaching the common ground and even if your actions/words are reasonable to us, they aren't to him.

Again, I'm not a counselor. I watched my aunt and uncle go through something similar with my cousin and they are still battling his addiction many years later. My heart goes out to you, I guess I'm just trying to say that maybe you should consider the angle that you did do something wrong, even if you think it was right.

Thanks.
I know what I did in rearing him that was problematic. For goodness' sake, my son won't and will never, it seems, let me ever forget it. As I said prior, he and I and everyone we have spoken to on a professional-level, have put this out in the open on the table. I have apologized. Repeatedly. And again. And again. For the past 3yrs it seems I have been apologizing for the same few issues he has gripped onto with a death-hold. And he won't let go. It is now to the point to where EVERYONE is saying how he needs to move on. And that at this point, he is 'using' these few issues as excuses for his continued rebelliousness and verbal attacks on me.

One good example that happened in this past month. He and I were in this 'family session' with Charles. Some good back and forths were going on. He brought up one of these 'issues' that he is angry at me for, I can't even remember now, something in the far past. So, AGAIN, I asked him to let it out-how it made him feel. AGAIN, I sat there silent and listened. And was as kind and humble as I could be. (for the record, I have no problem admitting I am wrong, that is one of my better character traits) I let him roll with it. When he was done, I apologized AGAIN. Whole-heartedly! This had to be like the 10th or maybe even 15th time that I expressed sorrow for this parenting mistake. Charles did acknowledge my sons feelings.

So, moving to the next week, next family session...my son had an angry moment (it doesn't take much to anger him) and out came that same issue again! Even Charles said to him, reminded him 'we went over that last week and your mom apologized!' Charles face was like 'huh? you're bringing that up again?'

You see? It's nonstop. Non-forgiveness. Non-moving on. Honestly, I am one of the most forgiving ppl one could ever meet. I just don't get it. He is the polar opposite. It has to be that he is not wanting to let go of these 'issues'....as then he won't have any feasible reason to verbally abuse me. He never apologizes. I can count on my one hand, how many apologies I have gotten from him these past 3-5yrs. Seriously.

However, he abuses me, calling me sordid names. Even has said if I died, he'd not cry....and never apologized for that. However, I come back for more. I forgive and it's never mentioned again. Perhaps that is why he abuses me, because I have let him.

That is one reason I have been instructed not only by MY own personal counselor, (you asked if I had one) but by my husband, my mother, and many close friends, to get up and walk out when he blasts me in anger. No drama, no anger from me, just get up and walk out. The next time I see him will be a new day. And so that is what I do now.

His gangster behavior is detrimental to his very 'being'. His life, if you ask me. I am scared to death for him when he is released in 3+ months.

One of the issues he is angry at me (how silly is this), is that, at 10yrs old, he had a bedtime of 9pm. 9pm!! When his neighborhood friends did not have to go to bed till whenever. Yes. He is actually hateful to me for that. 8yrs ago! He says how awful I was for making him go to bed at 9pm!!! While in elementary school! He still talks about it! He's still mad about it! I am sorry but I can't keep apologizing for that, and I won't! I was his mother! That is what mothers are supposed to do!

Another one of his 'issues' that enrages him is that when he was around 10-11ish, he and I both had a 'neopet' (neopets.com-virtual pets that you take care of and can battle others pets online). We used to play together this neopet game and even battle each other. He used to battle strangers online, his neopet vs. theirs. And so did I. Well one day I noticed his neopet page had a 'message' so I checked it to see what some stranger was messaging my son. Do you know he is still livid at that? But now he twists it to make me look awful and says that I only checked it because I 'didn't trust' him when he was only 10. When anyone (or I) goes on to clarify and says 'no your mom checked it because she was worried about online predators..' he will have nothing to do with that reasoning! You see..it doesn't fit what he is trying to do in making me seem evil. =[

It's baffling to not only me but to everyone who knows the situation. Even counselors don't completely get it.

However, his 'dad' can be MIA for the first 12yrs of his life...and can call my son horrible names, degrade him and curse him out, they've even had a few physical altercations....but my son has NO outright problem with that man!

(btw, I never bashed his dad, that's just NOT me)

Thanks for your input. You're pretty keen.

[NJGOAT]

You stated that you have apologized for the transgressions that he percieved, but have you told him you realize now that while you may have done certain things you perceived to be in his best interest you realize that they may not have been the best decision at the time?

Again we're back to the control and trust issues. The two examples you talked about were all about control and trust. You gave him a curfew that while reasonable to you may have impeded his relationship with his friends. Was the curfew for a specific reason like he was getting in trouble or did you just feel that a 9pm curfew was appropriate for his age? If it was essentially arbitrary to him it may seem that you exercised control for the sake of control because you didn't trust him. The neopets thing is another example. You violated his privacy to read a message and he sees that as another example of you trying to control his life and violating his trust.

He may be clinging to these examples, but he seems to be using them to try and hint at a greater issue. He may feel that you try to exert control over every aspect of his life and fail to trust him even when you had no real reason not to. This may be a bit of a stretch on my part, but you can see where the correlations can be drawn.

The thought is backed up by the course of action he ultimately took. He rebelled and became everything you are against and would never want him to be. The drugs are an escape for him as is going to live with his father who while obviously not dad of the year is the antithesis to you and the structure of your home. He seems to me like a kid desperately trying to escape from a situation where he feels as if he's a prisoner.

It seems like the best thing for him is balance. Look at his situation in rehab. You have said that he seems to be thriving there. He has structure and rules, but is also free to be his own person and free to express his feelings the way he wishes. While the rules certainly restrict what he can and can't do, no one is telling him who he should be and trying to control his life.

Most addicts start using as a method for escape from their reality. Until you are able to get to the root of the problem he will most likely slide back into his old habits. It sounds like he is trying to say what that root is, but is afraid to be direct about it. Just remember that despite the strong words and the exterior image chances are your son is still that little boy you used to play neopets with inside. Maybe he keeps going back to that time because that is where his life started to turn. I have a suspicion that if you find that root and dig it up you're going to be left with a 10 year old man who desperately wants his mom to love and trust him for who he is.

[twowolves]

You stated that you have apologized for the transgressions that he percieved, but have you told him you realize now that while you may have done certain things you perceived to be in his best interest you realize that they may not have been the best decision at the time? yes I have. I don't know of any other ways I could possibly apologize to him. I have cried. I have told him I am sorry for being a sometimes crappy mom. Told him I was young and did the best I could do. I don't possibly know what else I could say. There are only so many creative ways that one can admit wrongdoing. Aren't there?
Again we're back to the control and trust issues. The two examples you talked about were all about control and trust. you are very perceptive. You gave him a curfew that while reasonable to you may have impeded his relationship with his friends. Was the curfew for a specific reason like he was getting in trouble no. or did you just feel that a 9pm curfew was appropriate for his age? yes. If it was essentially arbitrary to him it may seem that you exercised control for the sake of control because you didn't trust him. The neopets thing is another example. You violated his privacy to read a message and he sees that as another example of you trying to control his life and violating his trust. who knew that I'd suffer to this day for trying to protect my son? I guess I should've banned him altogether from the computer then. If a parent can't protect their son by monitoring their internet use, then what do they do? I am basically being crucified for being a mother to my son. I merely checked the msg, I didn't get him in trouble, nothing came of it, I merely checked the msg.
He may be clinging to these examples, but he seems to be using them to try and hint at a greater issue. He may feel that you try to exert control over every aspect of his life and fail to trust him even when you had no real reason not to. This may be a bit of a stretch on my part, but you can see where the correlations can be drawn.so if you're correct and this all stems from me being his mother and well on the way, making a few mistakes, then why the continued abuse now? and for the past 3yrs? he's been free of me, living with the dad....and in 3 months he will be free of me forever! why the continued abuse?
The thought is backed up by the course of action he ultimately took. He rebelled and became everything you are against and would never want him to be. The drugs are an escape for him as is going to live with his father who while obviously not dad of the year is the antithesis to you and the structure of your home. He seems to me like a kid desperately trying to escape from a situation where he feels as if he's a prisoner.but he's been free of me for the past 3 yrs, the past one year solidly. why the continued abuse?
It seems like the best thing for him is balance. Look at his situation in rehab. You have said that he seems to be thriving there. He has structure and rules, but is also free to be his own person and free to express his feelings the way he wishes. While the rules certainly restrict what he can and can't do, no one is telling him who he should be and trying to control his life.he has no freedom where he is. he has to tuck in his shirt. he can't say bro, dude or cool. he can't talk back. he can't watch tv but when they say he can watch tv. no computer, no cellphones, no phone calls, nothing! bedime at 9 (yes 9 and he's now 17)..wake up at 6 sharp....why is he thriving there then?
Most addicts start using as a method for escape from their reality. Until you are able to get to the root of the problem he will most likely slide back into his old habits. It sounds like he is trying to say what that root is, but is afraid to be direct about it. if you're right and the root has to do with control and trust, those 2 issues have all been out on the table for a minimum of the past year....why is it still an issue? or unresolved like you alluded? his temperament therapist has tested him and we all know that respect is his most important need, I have been giving him respect ever since. but his behavior to me is unchanging. his dad gives him NO respect and gets treated like dad-of-the-year. Just remember that despite the strong words and the exterior image chances are your son is still that little boy you used to play neopets with inside. Maybe he keeps going back to that time because that is where his life started to turn. extremely insightful. can't believe you're not a therapist. I have a suspicion that if you find that root and dig it up you're going to be left with a 10 year old man who desperately wants his mom to love and trust him for who he is. again, would you have any further clue as to what needs to still be determined or brought out...relating to the control and trust issue/anger? how much would/does one need to talk about control and trust before it can be determined that that is the problem? I don't get it. we have determined this and discussed this and so I can't even conceive what more would need to 'come out' or 'be determined' relating to these core issues?
I don't know, throwing this out there, I married my husband when son was 8. could that be it? another thing he has brought up (more upset than mad) is that his dad and I didn't get married or stay together....?

[NJGOAT]

Divorce and/or seperation of parents is very hard on kids. You mentioned you married your current husband when your son was 8. You also mentioned that your current husband is a police officer. What is the relationship between your son and his stepfather? Would you classify it as a normal father/son relationship or are they more distant? What kind of role did your husband take in crafting the rules that your son had to live by? Did your parenting style change after you were married to adapt to the style your husband prefers or was it always consistent?

I don't think it is necessarily a coincidental that your son started to take that turn in his life around the time you remarried and brought a new father figure into his life. Given that your sons's biofather isn't the world's best parent, did you ever shield your son from his biofather and prevent him from seeing him? Maybe some of the control issues go back to him feeling like you controlled his relationship with his father?

Also are there any siblings involved here? In particular siblings from your current marriage? That can be a source of huge animosity for kids.

It seems you have done all you can to put the issues out there and address them and are now at the point of simply wanting to know why. Have you ever considered the possibility that he may simply not be ready to go down that path? If his issues are related to trust and control he may feel that you need to demonstrate your new found realization about that aspect of your parenting before he is ready to open up more or move on. One solution may be to simply say let's move on from this point forward. Put the past in the past and start over. Give him a couple things that you expect and then reinforce that all other decisions are his to make and you will support him as much or as little as he wants and will give him his space. I would boil it down to no drugs, no fighting and he has to finish high school. I think those are pretty reasonable goals that he could accept. I would assume he still intends to live at his dad's and in that case you don't need to worry about house rules and such. Once he sees you respecting and trusting him as a person he may be ready to move on and open up. Of course if he still resists, you may not have a choice but to distance yourself for awhile as hard as it will be.

[rebelson]

Divorce and/or seperation of parents is very hard on kids. Not to lessen the family breaking up but my son was only 18mo when we separated..so no memories for him. You mentioned you married your current husband when your son was 8. He was almost 4 when I met my now husband. You also mentioned that your current husband is a police officer. What is the relationship between your son and his stepfather? It has been quite a good relationship. Would you classify it as a normal father/son relationship or are they more distant? It could've/would've been more of a normal father/son relationship but my son kept a certain distance between them. when we married and son was 8, my husband told him that it was up to him whether he wished to call him 'dad' or not. and made sure son knew there would be no hard feelings...son chose right away to call him by his first name. What kind of role did your husband take in crafting the rules that your son had to live by? my husband left it up to me and sort of had a hands-off approach w/discipline. he did have some input now and then when something problematic came up. the one thing he WOULD NOT tolerate was for my son to have any pot in our home, which he would sneak in...that did get my husband livid. that ws the most I had ever seen my husband get angry, was toward the end when the drugs were becoming a problem. soon after that, son began fleeing to his dad's more and more for longer time frames each time. Did your parenting style change after you were married to adapt to the style your husband prefers or was it always consistent? totally consistent. my husband did tell me from time to time that I bickered too much with my son like he was my brother instead of son, and as a result, my son's already argumentative temperament probably did get worse...as I let him have too much 'say' or borderline 'backtalk' I guess you could say....I guess I had a problem with shushing him as my mom never cared what I had to say...so my pendulum with him swung too far the 'other' way and I let son have too MUCH say. does that make sense? anyway my husband was completely right but at that time, after years of this communication pattern, it was hard for me to change it.

I don't think it is necessarily a coincidental that your son started to take that turn in his life around the time you remarried and brought a new father figure into his life. Given that your sons's biofather isn't the world's best parent, did you ever shield your son from his biofather and prevent him from seeing him? Maybe some of the control issues go back to him feeling like you controlled his relationship with his father? NO! definitely not! I used to call the dad and lay huge guilt because he was blowing off his summer 6wk visitations, holidays like Christmas/birthdays that were to be the father's days w/son, he'd blow them off and not take him! every other weekend visits came and went without happening, for years. I would give him information as to son's 'soccer' and 'flag football' games....times/days in hopes that bio dad would show up....if he showed up to 3 games, that was huge! funny thing was, son NEVER inquired! never asked about the dad. never asked to call him etc etc. now he's the best guy around. I truly did want my son to have his bio dad around because I knew that was important for a boy. my husband did the best he could. played video games with son a lot. and def has been a great role model for my son as to how a man should behave. my husband is def not your typical cop personality. he to this day can't understand why he became a cop. our marriage is a good one and I am atleast glad that my son was exposed to a happy home in that way.

Also are there any siblings involved here? In particular siblings from your current marriage? That can be a source of huge animosity for kids. yes. 2. almost 4yrs and a 5yr old. over text msgs son rejects them but in person he acts like he loves them. they adore him that's for sure. I have asked him if he's jealous I had more kids and he goes back and forth with his answer. his real rebelliousness began when the first one was born....right when my teens hormones started kicking in. first signs were he was listening to really satanic music....downhill from there. I believe there is some jealousy where my children's family now is intact and his was/is not.

It seems you have done all you can to put the issues out there and address them and are now at the point of simply wanting to know why. Have you ever considered the possibility that he may simply not be ready to go down that path? If his issues are related to trust and control he may feel that you need to demonstrate your new found realization about that aspect of your parenting before he is ready to open up more or move on. good possibility. I have changed in huge ways over this past year though and not really much change at all on his part. I will keep plodding on. That's all I can do. I will never give up on him. I love him to death and miss his 'nice' side sooooo much. We were very close when he was younger, my mom and friends remind me of different instances that they remember. One of son hanging onto my leg when I would have to leave him at Nanas to be babysat..the other where he said to me when he was 5ish, 'can boys marry their mommies?' That was so cute. I will never forget it, when he said it we were going down an escalator at a local mall. One solution may be to simply say let's move on from this point forward. Put the past in the past and start over. Give him a couple things that you expect and then reinforce that all other decisions are his to make and you will support him as much or as little as he wants and will give him his space. pretty much what I had in mind. I would boil it down to no drugs, no fighting and he has to finish high school. I think those are pretty reasonable goals that he could accept. I would assume he still intends to live at his dad's and in that case you don't need to worry about house rules and such.This I am sure of. I cannot see him coming here. Once he sees you respecting and trusting him as a person he may be ready to move on and open up. Of course if he still resists, you may not have a choice but to distance yourself for awhile as hard as it will be. yep.already have distanced myself hugely this past year.

[NJGOAT]

Well, I wouldn't write off the fact that all of his issues started to appear around the same time you had your second child. As you stated your other children have everything he lacked. He never accepted his stepfather as "dad" and chose to keep his actual father in that role even though he was absent. His siblings have the life he never had, at least in his mind.

In addition I'm sure the younger kids required a lot of your attention as well. So maybe he felt that not only did he not have a real father in his life, but when the other children came along that he lost his mom as well. Even if nothing changed in regards to your love or feelings, the time you could commit to focusing on him certainly changed. You were dealing with pregnancies and all the work that babies entail. At the same time he was going through many changes of his own. Perhaps he felt like he no longer belonged? You had a husband and now two other children to attend to, it's not a far stretch to think that he felt like the odd duck out. For the longest time you were the only person in his life who he felt cared about him and now he was losing you. Think back. How many times did you say I can't do x right now, I'm feeding the baby. I don't have time for y the babies sick. I can't take you to z because I have no one to watch the baby?

Perhaps the music (although I don't think music makes people bad, but it can certainly reflect a mood) was the first signs of what was essentially depression. He no longer belonged, no one wanted him, he was the forgotten child. Mom and stepdad are busy with the babies, biodad wants little to nothing to do with him. The drugs were an escape and the attitude and the rebellion were as much about attention as anything else. It's been said by many people that when kids don't receive the attention they need, they will turn to destructive behavior as negative attention is still attention in their minds.

When you cracked down on his behavior he fled to his biodads where he was free to do what he wanted and there was no competition for attention. Even though his biodad is not a good father, at least your son was the only kid and if he felt that he lost you, maybe he felt that he was the only person he had left.

I don't think you should feel guilty in anyway about having other children, but I think it is too much of a coincidence to ignore that the other kids may have had a huge impact on your son. I don't know if you've focused on this in any sessions, but it might not be a bad idea to bring up the siblings and his feelings about their birth and what happened afterward. I know I'm just some guy on the internet, but I think you may have found your root.