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This is why a basic understanding of statistics is necessary. You can't fake statistics in peer reviewed literature, eventually mistakes get found. That why as horrible as peer review is it still exists.
So tell us the flaws in the study? And how is this question biased "About how many times, if any, have you had to spank your child in the past week?"
Oh and btw, your anecdotal experience is meaningless compared to national sample sizes in the thousands.
I would need to see the study in its entirety to see what flaws there are, if any.
And if you read the article, you'll note that (a) mistakes WERE found and (b) the author of the study (not the author of the article) had a very strong bias to start with. That last is a red flag in and of itself, or should be, even if one shares the bias, and a sign to examine the study even more closely.
Yes, I'm aware that anecdotal experience is not research. It is, however, useful.
On peer review, I agree that we need to come up with something better and more reliable but until that is done, it's what we've got. I just don't view it with the awe that some do, for the reasons given.
One of my older friends is from a lower-upper-class family who were, when he was young, just beginning to rebound from hitting "rock-bottom". These were people with pedigrees going back beyond the Domesday Book, the Almanach de Gotha, and the Sephardic Golden Age in Spain. They basically are members of the (very) extended family who for centuries have owned and controlled Europe.
But his branch of that web of kinship lived in the Deep South, and had been corrupted by centuries of interaction with their servants there (distant relatives included The Duchess of Windsor, the Bush Family, and Pauline de Rothschild) . Violence against children, and allowing the children to be raised almost entirely by the servants, had warped them. My friend grew up being watched by everyone, for any excuse to punish him. His mother and the maids basically beat all the aggression out of him. "The old White Trash women were the worst."
So, when he got to school, he was extremely non-violent and passive. This led to his being bullied quite a lot. He was going to kill himself in seventh grade, but - lucky for him - the public school he was attending was forcibly integrated by the feds, and he got yanked from that school, and put in a private day school, mid-year. "It saved me. Lyndon Johnson saved me from being bullied-to-death by the White Trash, by integrating our school. You know, I was strong enough that I could have KILLED those little boys who were hitting me. I could have stomped their brains out. I could have broken their filthy little redneck arms. But I had been punished at home so relentlessly that it was impossible for me to even conceive of defending myself. I'd been trained since age two, to just stand there and silently let other people hit me. It was impossible for me to ideate hitting-back."
Today, his only friends are his clients. He keeps his (rather scary and imperious) family at arm's-length. He has never been in a romantic relationship.He is so passive-aggressive that he sabotages even himself. He's the best in his field, but his passive aggression is worsening and destroying him, and I don't know for how long he will be able to continue working. For a while, his inner rage was wonderful, while focused on my competitors.
I'm not sure what the OP is asking. But NO, I do not think that withholding physical punishment creates passive/unhealthy/defenseless adults.
I do, though, think that physical punishment of children can lead to extremely VIOLENT adults. My friend is brilliant, and, as tends to be the case, subverted his rage - turning it inward, and using it to destroy others in business (He was a horrible landlord, too, and sold his residential buildings when I sold mine. We both sold because our tendencies toward ruthlessness were triggered by interactions with the class of people who had tormented us as children.). But stupid people do not internalize rage. They become the violent bullies at school, then become wife-beaters, gay-bashers, serial killers, gang-bangers...
Spanking children is very unwise. And I've noticed that the people who spank/beat their children the most are the ones who have the worst kids.
Last edited by GrandviewGloria; 07-05-2014 at 05:15 PM..
One of my older friends is from a lower-upper-class family who were, when he was young, just beginning to rebound from hitting "rock-bottom". These were people with pedigrees going back beyond the Domesday Book, the Almanach de Gotha, and the Sephardic Golden Age in Spain. They basically are members of the (very) extended family who for centuries have owned and controlled Europe.
But his branch of that web of kinship lived in the Deep South, and had been corrupted by centuries of interaction with their servants there (distant relatives included The Duchess of Windsor, the Bush Family, and Pauline de Rothschild) . Violence against children, and allowing the children to be raised almost entirely by the servants, had warped them. My friend grew up being watched by everyone, for any excuse to punish him. His mother and the maids basically beat all the aggression out of him. "The old White Trash women were the worst."
So, when he got to school, he was extremely non-violent and passive. This led to his being bullied quite a lot. He was going to kill himself in seventh grade, but - lucky for him - the public school he was attending was forcibly integrated by the feds, and he got yanked from that school, and put in a private day school, mid-year. "It saved me. Lyndon Johnson saved me from being bullied-to-death by the White Trash, by integrating our school. You know, I was strong enough that I could have KILLED those little boys who were hitting me. I could have stomped their brains out. I could have broken their filthy little redneck arms. But I had been punished at home so relentlessly that it was impossible for me to even conceive of defending myself. I'd been trained since age two, to just stand there and silently let other people hit me. It was impossible for me to ideate hitting-back."
Today, his only friends are his clients. He keeps his (rather scary and imperious) family at arm's-length. He has never been in a romantic relationship.He is so passive-aggressive that he sabotages even himself. He's the best in his field, but his passive aggression is worsening and destroying him, and I don't know for how long he will be able to continue working. For a while, his inner rage was wonderful, while focused on my competitors.
I'm not sure what the OP is asking. But NO, I do not think that withholding physical punishment creates passive/unhealthy/defenseless adults.
I do, though, think that physical punishment of children can lead to extremely VIOLENT adults. My friend is brilliant, and, as tends to be the case, subverted his rage - turning it inward, and using it to destroy others in business (He was a horrible landlord, too, and sold his residential buildings when I sold mine. We both sold because our tendencies toward ruthlessness were triggered by interactions with the class of people who had tormented us as children.). But stupid people do not internalize rage. They become the violent bullies at school, then become wife-beaters, gay-bashers, serial killers, gang-bangers...
Spanking children is very unwise. And I've noticed that the people who spank/beat their children the most are the ones who have the worst kids.
I would need to see the study in its entirety to see what flaws there are, if any.
And if you read the article, you'll note that (a) mistakes WERE found and (b) the author of the study (not the author of the article) had a very strong bias to start with. That last is a red flag in and of itself, or should be, even if one shares the bias, and a sign to examine the study even more closely.
Yes, I'm aware that anecdotal experience is not research. It is, however, useful.
On peer review, I agree that we need to come up with something better and more reliable but until that is done, it's what we've got. I just don't view it with the awe that some do, for the reasons given.
Have you actually been through the peer review process?
Please explain how BIAS makes it through peer review? Because as someone who has been through it, bias does not enter. Additionally, as someone who read the actual study (and btw, your own "article" has a link to the actual study), there was no bias and even if there were, that does not mean the findings were wrong. In fact the statistics are inarguable.
I got knuckle rapped on the head, routinely. It seemed very painful to me at the time, but probably because I didn't have a lot of other pains to compare it with. But it definitely affected my brain. Ever since then, I've been getting dumber and dumber, and can't remember a damned thing. The point being, in relation to what we were discussing, what were we discussing again?
I've seen kids, who are never spanked, become unruly out-of-control BRATS! They don't follow rules... When they grow up, they speed/tailgate in their car or text while driving (break rules which are there for their own protection), then wind up at the mortuary.
Some kids need a good spanking. It is for their own good they learn to follow rules.
I've seen kids, who are never spanked, become unruly out-of-control BRATS! They don't follow rules... When they grow up, they speed/tailgate in their car or text while driving (break rules which are there for their own protection), then wind up at the mortuary.
Some kids need a good spanking. It is for their own good they learn to follow rules.
Are you seriously trying to say that people that speed and tailgate do that because they haven't been spanked? Usually they do that because they're aggressive dumbarses. You can draw your own conclusion from that, I certainly have.
I've seen kids, who are never spanked, become unruly out-of-control BRATS! They don't follow rules... When they grow up, they speed/tailgate in their car or text while driving (break rules which are there for their own protection), then wind up at the mortuary.
Some kids need a good spanking. It is for their own good they learn to follow rules.
The kids that behave like this were not disciplined...and are you really suggesting that the only way to discipline a child is to beat them?
That isn't discipline either.
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