Who would you side with? Am I being selfish and immature?

[Athair]

Originally Posted by thewitchisback

Me: You know if I were a man you wouldn't call me selfish. But women are supposed to be self sacrificing. It is thrust upon them.

Mom: You are getting me VERY annoyed

Me: You cannot combat my logic so it annoys you. And your lack of logical argument annoys me!!

What logic do you claim to have invented?

You imply that fathers will pack their bags and go on world travel adventures at their leisure while leaving the kids with their mother/grandparents. You imply that because of that idiotic view, and the apparent gender inequality of it, that your mother is ignorant for saying a parent should be a parent.

[monumentus]

Originally Posted by Braunwyn

I provided the link to the site I referred.

Yes and that site was an opinion piece that cited no study data or clinical data at all. Anywhere. That is not good.

The OP wants to know if they are being selfish. You are trying to suggest that this is selfish because the OP wants to do something that will potentially harm the child. However your sole back up for the claim it will harm the child is an opinion piece with no evidence whatsoever in it.

So we are back therefore to suggesting the OP is doing nothing wrong and nothing selfish by planning some holiday time away from the child and any suggestion this might harm the child is fear mongering.

OP: To repeat. There is nothing selfish about your wish to travel after the birth. Nothing. There is no reason to think you traveling will harm your child. Nothing. There is also nothing wrong with lamenting that having a child might curtail many aspects of your life. It will - and there is nothing wrong with feeling sad about this.

However if you harbour any animosity towards your child for this fact - THEN there is an issue. And if you harbour any resentment to your mother for not wanting to hear you commiserate the alterations in your life - then simply discontinue such conversation with her and find a better shoulder to cry on. There is no onus on her to be that person. So do not pressure her with it.

[Braunwyn]

Originally Posted by monumentus

Yes and that site was an opinion piece that cited no study data or clinical data at all. Anywhere. That is not good.

The OP wants to know if they are being selfish. You are trying to suggest that this is selfish because the OP wants to do something that will potentially harm the child. However your sole back up for the claim it will harm the child is an opinion piece with no evidence whatsoever in it.

So we are back therefore to suggesting the OP is doing nothing wrong and nothing selfish by planning some holiday time away from the child and any suggestion this might harm the child is fear mongering.

OP: To repeat. There is nothing selfish about your wish to travel after the birth. Nothing. There is no reason to think you traveling will harm your child. Nothing. There is also nothing wrong with lamenting that having a child might curtail many aspects of your life. It will - and there is nothing wrong with feeling sad about this.

However if you harbour any animosity towards your child for this fact - THEN there is an issue. And if you harbour any resentment to your mother for not wanting to hear you commiserate the alterations in your life - then simply discontinue such conversation with her and find a better shoulder to cry on. There is no onus on her to be that person. So do not pressure her with it.

The article was not a study. It was guidance to parents by experts in the field based on research. There is no reason to cite.

The oly thing close to an OPED is this thread. And yes, she is certainly being selfish in her thought process. Any parent that views her child as an obstacle getting in the way of her potential good time really needs to get a grip.

[monumentus]

Originally Posted by Braunwyn

The article was not a study. It was guidance to parents by experts in the field based on research. There is no reason to cite.

On the contrary there is always reasons to cite. Much more so by "experts" because they should no better. You are essentially making an "appeal to authority" fallacy here. Because they claim to be experts we should accept what they are saying even without citation or evidence?

No way - not happening. If they are so "expert" then they should not only know the data - but the importance of presenting it.

Originally Posted by Braunwyn

Any parent that views her child as an obstacle getting in the way of her potential good time really needs to get a grip.

Again that depends on HOW it is viewed as an obstacle. People having children NEED to look at the child as an obstacle to many things. Because an obstacle it will be - and they need to make their choice to procreate in the light of that knowledge and assessment. They need to know what parts of their life it will curtail or even prohibit - and decide if these are compromises to make or not.

Viewing your child as an obstacle to these things is not a bad thing therefore. It is a good thing. Harbouring animosity or negativity towards the child for them however - for a choice the parent themselves made - THAT would be a real issue.

[Vic 2.0]

Originally Posted by Braunwyn

Any parent that views her child as an obstacle getting in the way of her potential good time really needs to get a grip.

Originally Posted by monumentus

Again that depends on HOW it is viewed as an obstacle. People having children NEED to look at the child as an obstacle to many things. Because an obstacle it will be - and they need to make their choice to procreate in the light of that knowledge and assessment. They need to know what parts of their life it will curtail or even prohibit - and decide if these are compromises to make or not.

Viewing your child as an obstacle to these things is not a bad thing therefore. It is a good thing. Harbouring animosity or negativity towards the child for them however - for a choice the parent themselves made - THAT would be a real issue.

I understand what you're both saying. You both make strong points. Monumentus, you are saying that parents shouldn't deny the fact that having children will take a great deal of sacrificing. They shouldn't underestimate just how much sacrifice that will be, because it will be a lot!

However, what Braunwyn's saying, is that ideally, these sacrifices will still feel rather negligible compared to the joys of parenting. Spending time with the new baby should be more exciting than a trip, yes, even to Paris. Frankly, that is what motivates good parenting in spite of those sacrifices. Otherwise, there will be that sort of resentment you speak of. So there should be unmistakable willingness to make those sacrifices. And based on the OP, with statements like

"Makes me very sad. To think of this child styming my movements."

she is feeling quite the opposite about parenting thus far. Nothing wrong with calling that to the OP's attention. And yes, since according to that first post she doesn't hear this argument too clearly, some have chosen to be a bit harsher in trying to get that message across.

It's necessary for a parent to both know what they are giving up by becoming a parent (ideally before even trying to conceive), and for them to, well, not care a whole lot.

[Gcs15]

:

Originally Posted by Kibbiekat

I think you will find it is not that "simple."

I was only away for a few days in the hospital when my daughter was 1. She had cut down on BFing obviously, and her diet was half solids. Still, if I didn't pump every few hours my breasts would get extremely hard and swollen and start leaking. At six months, that happened if I went to a doctors appointment and happened to take longer then a single feeding. It is not "simple" at all.

[monumentus]

Originally Posted by Vic 2.0

However, what Braunwyn's saying, is that ideally, these sacrifices will still feel rather negligible compared to the joys of parenting.

And I would not - nor have I - suggested otherwise. But one does not preclude the other is my main point. You can perfectly easily do both - enjoy all the joys and thrills of parenting - while still indulging in a week holiday.

The issue I would take is not just with the people acting like somehow the two are entirely mutually exclusive - when they are not - but users like Braunwyn even claiming outright that such events like a week long abscence can positively harm the child in the long term.