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I can only tell you that if he can keep being the center of attention every waking moment while you try to potty train him, he will milk it.
You are not alone in your struggle, believe me, so don't feel bad. One friend of ours was going through the same thing. Mom struggled week after week with her son until she was at her wit's end. The Dad took over one weekend. He told his son, "You don't wear diaper anymore, Buddy" and that was that.
Today he came and told his mom that he went poop in the toilet....he didn't even tell anyone he had to go he just went...he has always been a very very independent kid so maybe he is just tired of people trying to make him go to the bathroom or tell us he has to go....I hope he continues this.
I would start with focusing on the peeing part, as it's a much easier function for him to control and for you all to see success, and then work on the pooping. Agree with the reply about getting him to try on the hour, and try and keep it light and fun - toss a cheerio in the water to give him something to aim at, an M&M every time he's successful, etc.
My older son was dry day and night by nearly 3, but he was 4 yrs 5 months before he could poop using a toilet. He would tell us when he needed to poop, he'd put on a pull-up, and then we'd have to clean him...Although we've since come to realise that this is a more common practice than you woud think, it's still pretty disgusting to have to clean poop off a 4yr old. This was the source of an enormous amount of tension and tears in our family and it was a difficult one to resolve.
Some people advised us to just let him soil himself, but for us it just seemed wrong to use humiliation as an educational tool with a four year old. Plus the times when we took a modified harder line approach, he just stopped pooping for days at a time, and that's not something you want, because you want him to be observant of and responsive to his urge, not ignoring it. Otherwise it can lead to kids getting seriously backed up, everything gets overstretched, needs medical intervention, all sorts of nasty consequences.
He always had to try to poop sitting on the toilet before we would let him use the pull-up, but he just couldn't do it, even after 30 minutes or so. And we made sure that he always had to do it in the bathroom, he wasn't allowed to use the pullup anywhere else. Similar to your situation, his brother arrived right when he turned 4, which probably didn't help things, but it was an issue long before that. We tried star charts, all sorts of reward systems, basically said we'll get you whatever you want if you can just poop in the toilet, but all to no avail, and this was a kid who was very motivated by rewards in other settings.
Eventually we figured out that it wasn't about him flexing an ability to control us. He knew that most of the kids he went to pre-school with weren't using pull-ups and in his own way he was as desperate to fix it as we were, but he just couldn't quite "get" the physical sensation of holding then releasing when he was sitting on the toilet, even though he could when he had a pull-up on. We realised that the difference was that with a pull-up he could squat, which is much more efficient from a bio-mechanical viewpoint (and is how much of the world did their business up until around a century ago - and still does in non-first world countries and parts of Asia and Europe). Sitting on a toilet, you have to physically work to release the muscle which is actually meant to hold everything in while we sit and stand (one of the reasons lots of people have hemorrhoids).
Once we realised that experiencing and recognising that hold-release sensation outside of being in a pull-up was the issue, we spread a bunch of newspaper on the bathroom floor, then put a cut-open plastic shopping bag in the middle and got him to squat over and poop on that. It felt strange to him at first (and us too) but after a minute or so, he was able to. It sounds ridiculous, but it was one of the most jubilant nights we've had as a family because it was such a breakthrough after a long period of struggle. Even if he still couldn't use the toilet, we at least didn't have to clean up the mess from a pull-up. But as it turns out, he did that two more times, then used the toilet thereafter, and has never had a pooping accident since then and he's now 10. I'm sorry if that was a more graphic suggestion than you might have been seeking, but man, I would have paid a lot of money for someone to give me some hints like that back then!
You say your son has fits when he does wet or soil himself, so he obviously feels embarrassed about it. Do everything you can to take the heat out of it, and believe me, I know from bitter experience how difficult that can be, but being angry and frustrated didn't change the outcome for us, it just made us all more miserable. You may already be doing this, but try an approach of "I'm on your side, I know you want to be able to wear undies and not have accidents, and let's try and figure this out together."
See if you can get him to be more specific about what it is that bothers him. If he says he is scared of the toilet, he probably is, it's not uncommon. See if there's something you can do to make the room a bit more appealing. We read books to our son or left books for him to look at himself. I've heard of people who've used radios and audio books to distract their kids and get them to relax. Make sure it's well lit. Tell him he doesn't have to flush it (lots of kids freak out about the noise and the disappearing contents). Make sure also that he's getting plenty of fluids and fibre so he's not constipated which will make it painful and exacerbate everything.
I would start with focusing on the peeing part, as it's a much easier function for him to control and for you all to see success, and then work on the pooping. Agree with the reply about getting him to try on the hour, and try and keep it light and fun - toss a cheerio in the water to give him something to aim at, an M&M every time he's successful, etc.
My older son was dry day and night by nearly 3, but he was 4 yrs 5 months before he could poop using a toilet. He would tell us when he needed to poop, he'd put on a pull-up, and then we'd have to clean him...Although we've since come to realise that this is a more common practice than you woud think, it's still pretty disgusting to have to clean poop off a 4yr old. This was the source of an enormous amount of tension and tears in our family and it was a difficult one to resolve.
Some people advised us to just let him soil himself, but for us it just seemed wrong to use humiliation as an educational tool with a four year old. Plus the times when we took a modified harder line approach, he just stopped pooping for days at a time, and that's not something you want, because you want him to be observant of and responsive to his urge, not ignoring it. Otherwise it can lead to kids getting seriously backed up, everything gets overstretched, needs medical intervention, all sorts of nasty consequences.
He always had to try to poop sitting on the toilet before we would let him use the pull-up, but he just couldn't do it, even after 30 minutes or so. And we made sure that he always had to do it in the bathroom, he wasn't allowed to use the pullup anywhere else. Similar to your situation, his brother arrived right when he turned 4, which probably didn't help things, but it was an issue long before that. We tried star charts, all sorts of reward systems, basically said we'll get you whatever you want if you can just poop in the toilet, but all to no avail, and this was a kid who was very motivated by rewards in other settings.
Eventually we figured out that it wasn't about him flexing an ability to control us. He knew that most of the kids he went to pre-school with weren't using pull-ups and in his own way he was as desperate to fix it as we were, but he just couldn't quite "get" the physical sensation of holding then releasing when he was sitting on the toilet, even though he could when he had a pull-up on. We realised that the difference was that with a pull-up he could squat, which is much more efficient from a bio-mechanical viewpoint (and is how much of the world did their business up until around a century ago - and still does in non-first world countries and parts of Asia and Europe). Sitting on a toilet, you have to physically work to release the muscle which is actually meant to hold everything in while we sit and stand (one of the reasons lots of people have hemorrhoids).
Once we realised that experiencing and recognising that hold-release sensation outside of being in a pull-up was the issue, we spread a bunch of newspaper on the bathroom floor, then put a cut-open plastic shopping bag in the middle and got him to squat over and poop on that. It felt strange to him at first (and us too) but after a minute or so, he was able to. It sounds ridiculous, but it was one of the most jubilant nights we've had as a family because it was such a breakthrough after a long period of struggle. Even if he still couldn't use the toilet, we at least didn't have to clean up the mess from a pull-up. But as it turns out, he did that two more times, then used the toilet thereafter, and has never had a pooping accident since then and he's now 10. I'm sorry if that was a more graphic suggestion than you might have been seeking, but man, I would have paid a lot of money for someone to give me some hints like that back then!
You say your son has fits when he does wet or soil himself, so he obviously feels embarrassed about it. Do everything you can to take the heat out of it, and believe me, I know from bitter experience how difficult that can be, but being angry and frustrated didn't change the outcome for us, it just made us all more miserable. You may already be doing this, but try an approach of "I'm on your side, I know you want to be able to wear undies and not have accidents, and let's try and figure this out together."
See if you can get him to be more specific about what it is that bothers him. If he says he is scared of thetoilet, he probably is, it's not uncommon. See if there's something you can do to make the room a bit more appealing. We read books to our son or left books for him to look at himself. I've heard of people who've used radios and audio books to distract their kids and get them to relax. Make sure it's well lit. Tell him he doesn't have to flush it (lots of kids freak out about the noise and the disappearing contents). Make sure also that he's getting plenty of fluids and fibre so he's not constipated which will make it painful and exacerbate everything.
Good luck - this too shall pass.
Excellent points. I'm a retired early childhood teacher and I have had several parents do things that were similiar, such as squatting & pooping in the bathtub or squatting over a kids potty chair. If you think about it, sitting on a toilet vs. squatting are two very different things and use different muscles.
Many, many young children are afraid of bathrooms. Sometimes, it is the echo, sometimes, it is the flushing, sometimes it is the bright lights, sometimes it is being alone in there (away from Mom) , sometimes it is fear of missing something exciting while you are away from the "action" in the family or classroom , and sometimes other things. See if you can figure out what he's afraid of and try to correct it.
My son had some sensory issues and didn't want to poop on the commode. He potty trained at 2 years, 3 months, but would hold his poop until he got a night time pull up. We finally just sat him on the potty and read books to him until he went. He would cry a little at first, and then get engaged in the book. After a few nights of that, he was fine and we didn't have any more problems.
The big thing to me with kids is empowering them to success. We potty trained all of ours in a few days (minus the pooping discussed above, but he still kept his underwear clean). We would announce that we were going to learn to go potty like a big boy (or girl) that weekend! Yay! How fun! And there will be lots of rewards and a party at the end!
And we spent a few weeks reading books about going potty. And sitting on the potty occassionally. Then we picked out fun big kid underwear, and some candy and small prizes. And then we spent 2-3 days at home, running to the bathroom very often.
The first morning they all wet their underwear multiple times. But by the afternoon they seemed to understand a little better. And by the 3rd day they were trained.
My first 2 trained right after they turned 2. Worked like a dream. We tried the same process with my 3rd at the same age, and it was a disaster. After 2 days, we were all pretty miserable. We stopped trying, waited until just before he turned 3, and then did the same process over and it worked.
You want them to want to do it and you want them to feel that they have the power over their own body. You can't badger them into it. And you can't give them all the power over your family.
You've got to get rid of the pull-ups. Start occassionally telling him now what a smart kid he is, and how you can't wait until he's fully potty trained so you can __________ with him. Then after you've planted some seeds, pick a weekend, go cold turkey into underwear and get it done. You guys can do this!
I put a gumball machine with jelly beans in it in the bathroom. When my daughter went to the potty, she got a penny to put in the machine. It worked like a charm.
My son just turned 4. We have been working on potty training for a year now. His sister was VERY VERY easy to potty train took like 3 months. We bought our son his own little potty seat,he had a potty chair before that,he REFUSES to even go to the bathroom,says he is scared.That seems to be his answer to everything he doesn't want to do. He won't use the potty chair we got him or the seat. He throws a fit when he pees on himself or poops himself and won't go get clean clothes,he just sits there and throws a fit on the floor...he won't tell anyone he has to use rest room or when he has gone...we smell it or feel it. I don't understand it. Everyone told me a boy would be easier than a girl to potty train...so far not true. He is extremely bright,has been tested for autism,adhd etc and he isn't either. He is extremely scared of LOUD sounds...always says his ears hurt...been to doc nothing wrong...I am at a loss...I am afraid my 9 month old is gonna be potty trained before he is...I want him to go to school this fall but don't think he can handle it. They want them potty trained first.Just at a complete loss here..I feel like my other kids aren't getting the attention they deserve and need because we are so worried about our son.
try using the Tinkletoonz musical sensors (www.tinkletoonz.com) they really work.....and teachers LOVE them because the music tells them the exact second that they wet their pullups....sensors are actually sold to many special needs schools.....it makes potty training so much easier....you'll be amazed.
I know the musical sensor ( www.tinkletoonz.com) is LOVED by teachers of special needs kids.....they know exactly when they wet their pullups easy to use and inexpensive too !!!!!
try using the Tinkletoonz musical sensors (www.tinkletoonz.com) they really work.....and teachers LOVE them because the music tells them the exact second that they wet their pullups....sensors are actually sold to many special needs schools.....it makes potty training so much easier....you'll be amazed.
The kid is now over 5 1/2.....I hope his parents have their act together by now.
My son was really stubborn about potty training. Finally I told him one day NO MORE DIAPERS. I put him in undies. Every single day for a month, he peed and pooped in his underwear. When he finally realized I wasn't going to back down, he started using the potty. It took a good few months to have him reliably pee trained. Poop training took another year or so.
Boys can be hard to train. I think waiting until they're older really makes things harder. In my case my son is extremely stubborn. For him it was a battle of the wills, and he wasn't going down without a fight!
ETA oops I see this is a zombie thread!
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