Unschooling - what is it and how does it work? (ideas, support)
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I'm a "learn by doing" person myself, so I can see the value in taking kids out to do and see. I just can't see doing that and nothing else. We take trips to educational places. We go to museums. We go to the library. We just do it on the weekends and when school is out.
Making a child sit in a structured classroom is no guarantee of a real level of understanding of a subject.
My understanding of math being exhibit 1-A.
It's not a guarantee, but I'd say sitting down with a child teaching them the intricacies of math has a greater chance of impacting the child then allowing them to discover it for themselves.
Now, Ted is my kind of guy! I'm going to read the article later when I can concentrate on it.
Confession: I aced my SATs. Except for the math portion. Where I scored so low they sent the test back to be graded again because they thought an error had been made. How could someone do so astoundingly well yet blow the math portion? It was pretty embarassing for a high school student.
One of my best friends is a real-life nuclear physicist. HE couldn't teach me math. (He taught my sons math so he CAN teach.) Goodness knows he tried. It wasn't until $10.00 calculators came on the market and I started playing with them that something in my brain clicked. Using them I could SEE how math worked. And I can now do my own taxes. As long as I have my calculator.
Making a child sit in a structured classroom is no guarantee of a real level of understanding of a subject.
My understanding of math being exhibit 1-A.
I am not sure why you insist on painting me as an enthusiast of current public education, I am not particularly.
But we know that children usually rise to expectations (in terms of depth of understanding), so when there are none, I am concerned that many of them lack the maturity to set their own.
This is one of the best things I've ever read regarding math and just learning in general. It's long but well written, thought provoking and worth the time. It's very much inline with unschooling. http://www.maa.org/devlin/LockhartsLament.pdf
I read the second link.
While it was interesting it completely ignores a few key concepts. It talks about problems (finding the diagonal of a cube or the square root of a negative number) and then ignores the FACT that some very basic skills are necessary to even start in on the "fun" part.
The fact that the author replies that math is an adventure when actually questioned about these basic skills implies a lack of actual understanding of how people learn that is bizarre for someone attempting to change the education system.
When asked about teaching methods (which are used to address LEARNING STYLES) the author claims only bad teachers need to use new methods. Because "talking in your own voice" is the best method. We KNOW many children do not learn about abstract concepts (and this author is addressing VERY abstract math) in such a way.
Later on there is a point talking about hos the angles on sphere add up to more than 180. While this is completely true, the reason we teach grade school children "absolutes" (and then I spend the rest of high school teaching them the "usuallys" and secondary and beyond focuses on the "exceptions") is because we know enough about their development to know that the capacity for abstract reasoning for the vast majority of students does not occur until the teenage years. Talk about setting them up to fail!
I am not sure why you insist on painting me as an enthusiast of current public education, I am not particularly.
Sorry. In my defense it's the vibe I've gotten from your posts. But, trust me on this, I don't INSIST on painting anyone as anything. That's making me kind of chuckle. I'll make a note of your stance, however.
Last edited by DewDropInn; 11-23-2011 at 06:23 PM..
While it was interesting it completely ignores a few key concepts. It talks about problems (finding the diagonal of a cube or the square root of a negative number) and then ignores the FACT that some very basic skills are necessary to even start in on the "fun" part.
The fact that the author replies that math is an adventure when actually questioned about these basic skills implies a lack of actual understanding of how people learn that is bizarre for someone attempting to change the education system.
When asked about teaching methods (which are used to address LEARNING STYLES) the author claims only bad teachers need to use new methods. Because "talking in your own voice" is the best method. We KNOW many children do not learn about abstract concepts (and this author is addressing VERY abstract math) in such a way.
Later on there is a point talking about hos the angles on sphere add up to more than 180. While this is completely true, the reason we teach grade school children "absolutes" (and then I spend the rest of high school teaching them the "usuallys" and secondary and beyond focuses on the "exceptions") is because we know enough about their development to know that the capacity for abstract reasoning for the vast majority of students does not occur until the teenage years. Talk about setting them up to fail!
Would you be willing to reference page numbers so we can discuss?
Just a note about who the author is. He was a research mathematician at UCLA. He has a PHD from Columbia University. He taught mathematics at Brown and UC Santa Cruz and he now teaches all grade levels of High School math at a small private school in Brooklyn, NY.
...
(We didn't jump on the couch. He was a firm believer in throwing us outside and making us run off all that energy. Which would lead to a short talk on Glen Cunningham, burn victims and the U.S. Olympic program. It was all sort of fabulous. Too bad the state made me go to school. I learned a lot more sitting under a tree reading about borax after one of our visits to the Calico mines. And to this day I look at a box of 20 Mule Team Borax and think of my mother saying, "You know where this came from!")
I think this is precisely why classroom school exists.
If left to my own devices, with a tree and and an article about borax, my parents would've come home from work one day and discovered the garage on fire and the colored clothes all bleached a lovely stark white.
Thankfully, I had science class, and was allowed, encouraged, and even sometimes ordered to experiment with all kinds of nasty, smelly, and potentially dangerous chemical combinations.
Homeschooling and unschooling sounds great though, if at least one parent is able to stay home and do the job (or supervise, or at least be there to drive Junior to the hospital when his borax-and ammonia-and-cider-vinegar experiment fails miserably).
I think this is precisely why classroom school exists.
If left to my own devices, with a tree and and an article about borax, my parents would've come home from work one day and discovered the garage on fire and the colored clothes all bleached a lovely stark white.
Thankfully, I had science class, and was allowed, encouraged, and even sometimes ordered to experiment with all kinds of nasty, smelly, and potentially dangerous chemical combinations.
Homeschooling and unschooling sounds great though, if at least one parent is able to stay home and do the job (or supervise, or at least be there to drive Junior to the hospital when his borax-and ammonia-and-cider-vinegar experiment fails miserably).
Last edited by DewDropInn; 11-23-2011 at 07:21 PM..
Reason: LMBO
Cool thread! What we do at our house is this, if my daughter has to ask if she may do something, we usually say "yes" but many times with "yes, after we, after you..." Sometimes we do ask her what has to be done first. That usually keeps her happy. We make sure that her desires are treated just as important as ours.
Really, the only rule we have is to listen the first time and we make sure she is listening. It only makes sense, we listen to her.
I really don't think there should be a time frame for learning something but because we have friends it is too easy to compare. For example, my daughter still didn't know her colors at 2.5 years.
So when she wants to help, especially with cooking, not only do we teach her vocabulary like yolk and whites but she has to learn the colors before she starts "playing", in this case making deviled eggs.
It took many repetitions, but I would have left it for another time if I felt like it was taking the fun out of the activity. However, she was determined to help so I used that energy to get her to remember her colors. When she finally started getting them right, we would celebrate with "ring-around-the-rosies."
I agree that you cannot separate learning from living. Nor can I separate discipline from living. In order to discipline the way I do now, I had to start learning to socialize and that is still an "a-ha" moment for me. I don't see myself as that parent who says "I am not your friend." No, my friends don't allow me to take advantage of them or treat them poorly.
Last edited by crisan; 11-24-2011 at 03:28 AM..
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As long as I have my calculator. 
Maybe we lean towards unschooling
