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There is a very big difference being able to 'handle' a child one on one and 'handle' one in a group situation, especially if that one child has a special need and disrupts the entire group during a time that is supposed to be relaxing and pleasant.
Imagine having a dinner party for adults. You've kept it to 10 people because you want it small and somewhat intimate, expecting good food and conversation. You are serving wine and cheese before dinner and people are milling about with some excitedly talking about their day, others involved in serious debate, some touring your home and others content to people watch.
You call them to dinner and just as you are about to make a toast to start the celebration, one particular person, we'll say A, gets up and announces loudly they are going to get more wine. You play it off as no big deal and continue on with your toast.
Right before you finish up A returns and loudly scrape the floor with their chair then starts talking to the person next to them before they've even sat back down. This table mate was intently listening to you at that moment and is now embarrassed to play an unwilling part in the disruption. Many other people couldn't help but also take their attention away from you and turn towards A as well.
Once again you overlook this and the serving begins, which you've chosen to do family style in such a small setting. You start with a salad bowl being passed around. It arrives in front of A and she picks and chooses what she wants out of the bowl, holding up progress and making the salad a little less appealing to others.
So you start the bowl of vegetables next going the other direction, and once again it gets stalled at A A holds it close to her nose to smell, then reaches in with her fingers and pinches off a small piece to taste test. She declares it surprisingly good and takes a helping before releasing it from her grip.
Suddenly A has knocked over her water glass and is up professing over and over her apologies for being so clumsy. You rush to get a towel to clean it up while everyone tries not to laugh, but cannot look away from the action. Clean up accomplished and you thank your lucky stars it was just water and not the red wine.
Next you start two meat platters, one from each end of the table. Yet before you can even introduce the choices on the platter, A is talking loudly to the table mate who doesn't realize you are saying something informative and they both miss it all. You have to explain a second time when it arrives there. As A is taking her choice, she drops the serving utensil on the floor and you have to get up and replace/wash it before it can finish being served.
Finally the bread basket goes around and A loves bread so she helps herself to several portions and now you have to get up to refill it before any one has even taken a bite. You have now missed much of the conversation getting up so frequently.
Once eating has begun, all you hear is A's voice over everyone else. She gets up numerous times to ask for something, go to the ladies room (which she announces to the entire table) or to talk to someone at the opposite end of the table. Every time you start a conversation with the person next to you, you are interrupted, have to stop because you can't be heard or have to leave to refill something for A.
You started off especially excited for after dinner dessert and coffee. You made a very special dessert and worked hard to complete it. You also bought several different flavors of coffee to have everyone try out. However, you find you are completely exhausted and frustrated at this point and it takes quite an effort to move forward at this time.
As you are trying to make a quick clearing of the dinner dishes, you find some of your dinner guests excusing themselves for the evening. But...you have a great dessert and special coffee. Why are you leaving? Because they are just as exhausted and frustrated over the dinner situation and ready to be done. They'd love to stay a little longer and partake, but they just don't have it in them to put up with A for any longer. They just can't do it. All implied of course, never spoken.
Since you do feel the same way, you fully understand and though it hurts your heart you accept them leaving and not finishing the evening. You are now left with A and maybe 1 or 2 other guests to stumble through dessert and what's left of the evening.
There's nothing left to do but cry or scream in the sudden silence once you finally send A on her way home. Afterwards, lying in bed, you spend hours awake running through the evening in your head trying to figure out how it went so wrong.
Next time you go for a more informal approach making it a buffet and it ends with the same results. The next time you try for snacks and drinks only.
Then one time A doesn't show up and your evening is such fun and amazing and you realize it really makes a huge difference if she is there or not.
Now your decision is easy. Just don't invite her anymore for anything other than just you and her, even if it does feel wrong to exclude her. You just can't handle that any more.
Yes. That is exactly what happens sometimes with kids. You try everything you can. When you find yourself at the point that it just isn't worth that much work to have that one child there anymore, then you bite the bullet and let them go.
Wow...You lost me there for a moment.
I appreciate what you're trying to say, I really do. But when it comes to children attending to a paying school, it's not quite the same. There are other factors to consider. Thanks for your comments.
Wow...You lost me there for a moment.
I appreciate what you're trying to say, I really do. But when it comes to children attending to a paying school, it's not quite the same. There are other factors to consider. Thanks for your comments.
I am an Early Childhood Professional and was simply trying to find a way to compare the situation to an adult level that would make more sense. I'm sorry it didn't hit the mark.
I have almost 20 years experience in EC, numerous certifications, countless hours of training, am a mom of 4 and can and have handled darn near every situation out there. However, there often comes a time where one particular child just isn't cut out to be in a group setting, or they have needs greater than can be met in a group setting, or the issues they cause are just no longer worth the end results. Those are hard decisions, heartbreaking in some cases, yet it is in the best interests of everyone involved to make a break, most especially for that particular child. A parent can pay me all the money in the world and it still won't be worth it in some cases.
So it really isn't about paying, as all the parents pay for the same quality program. It is a parents choice whether or not they enroll their child in any given program and it is the same choice whether any given program accepts or retains any child in their program.
A preschool teacher may have a Masters or even PhD in Early Childhood Education with years upon years of experience. However that does not mean they are capable of successfully dealing with every single child that comes their way. That's just life.
It's really good that you are monitoring your child, and are aware of her behavior issues. Are you working with a behavioral family therapist? Talk to your child's pediatrician/family doctor if you haven't already. Bevahioral therapy has come a long way. Sometimes it's not just something going on with the child, it can be something going on within the family unit causing the child to behave a certain way.
I have known so many families over the years who have changed schools and even opted to keep kids home/homeschool due to behavioral issues. So many parents try to place the blame on the schools or teachers rather than accept responsibility for the parenting and behavior of their own child. Most of the families I have known who have changed schools found that the move to a new school just either made things worse, or they just brought the problems with them. It's best, I think, to stay where you are and learn as a family to create the changes needed for positive growth and happiness. "Bloom where your planted." I love that quote. Whenever one of our kids has faced an issue at school, summer camp, on a sports team, etc, I think of that quote quite a bit. The seemingly obvious and easiest solution seems to be to quit, or leave, but that's not always the solution which offers the most growth or highest yield - kwim? And nobody ever said growing kids was going to be a piece of cake.
Hmmm..well my first question would be "What does disruptive mean?"
This has many meanings..and if th techer is trying to read a book and has to stop..again why is she stopping? Is your daughter moving around? Is she laughing and leaning into other children? Is she making faces or being noisy?
At 4 and already attending a childcare setting for some time she should already know routine hence the teachers should be anticipating this behavior from your child...and 10 children is not alot of children, this is a very small group...I have had 8 12-36 month olds listen to a story with little disruptions...but I knew my kids...
At four it is very common to have 16 children in a group and let me assure you this is a quality standard..
The issue is that the teachers feel that this is disruptive to the other children whom have parents that pay for this service and it simply is not fair to them...
Speaking to the teacher probably would have been my first move upon receiving the note..again asking what the issue really is..the meaning of disruptive and the steps that are taken when your daughter behaves this way..how many assistants are there? A teacher should always have an asst. for these purposes...someone who can either sit right next to the child and shadow them, assist them in regaining control of themselves or taking them out of the situation so the others can enjoy the activity...
The fact that she does fine with the nanny is of no consequence to me since it is one on one and the nanny most likely follows the lead of the child and does what the child is interested in...in a group/center based setting the teacher must think of all the children and what the curriculum is going to be and actually teaching contrary to popular belief..
So the fact that your daughter will be starting a structured school envoronment soon? I would not take her out..I would speak to the teacher and ask what is going on and what YOU not the nanny can do to help yopur child
I am an Early Childhood Professional and was simply trying to find a way to compare the situation to an adult level that would make more sense. I'm sorry it didn't hit the mark.
I have almost 20 years experience in EC, numerous certifications, countless hours of training, am a mom of 4 and can and have handled darn near every situation out there. However, there often comes a time where one particular child just isn't cut out to be in a group setting, or they have needs greater than can be met in a group setting, or the issues they cause are just no longer worth the end results. Those are hard decisions, heartbreaking in some cases, yet it is in the best interests of everyone involved to make a break, most especially for that particular child. A parent can pay me all the money in the world and it still won't be worth it in some cases.
So it really isn't about paying, as all the parents pay for the same quality program. It is a parents choice whether or not they enroll their child in any given program and it is the same choice whether any given program accepts or retains any child in their program.
A preschool teacher may have a Masters or even PhD in Early Childhood Education with years upon years of experience. However that does not mean they are capable of successfully dealing with every single child that comes their way. That's just life.
I understood everything you stated! I am an ECE specialist myself and I have seen it all..I have worked IN PRIVATE centers as well as Head start and one will seea gambit of children..
We as educators attempt to go through the process of elimination..aka..special needs vs natural environment and exposure..Our job is not to be hideous but to ensure that each child is successful in the classroom which is in reality setting them up for further education, a handle on the basics must be attained..
So we have a dilemma..modifying the curriculum and the environment for the child as well as maintaining quality for those children whom have already mastered the basics..
We cannot dx but after so many years in the business you have seen it before and already know..
There comes a time when specialists are needed..behavior mod..OT's. and so forth..I was lucky enough to have these resources available to my classroom but honestly? Without my OT'S, therapists? We would have to exit my little darlings..
children with ADHD can learn..at 4? She is too young to be dx..
There is a rule of thumb I go by when I useto receive a new baby ( I call them all babies)
I would give the parents an assessment test and then I would do a personal ass. test based on what I saw in my classroom...
A good tool..ASQ and ASQ-SE...This is used with MFT'S aka Marriage and family therapists and anyone whom works with children in a state/federal program usually..
The ASQ is where a child is developmentally..however if a child scored low? I would not worry because this could mean many things..yes theie counterparts may have scored high but then again means nothing..
i.e. able to line blocks, associate by color, shape, group..i.e. cars, animals ect..
To me? It maybe because in the home this does not happen, either the concepts or toys are not there or parents do not know..so I provide these things and after 3 months of working with the child I will retest again...
ASQ-SE...the biggie this is the social emotional piece..
Does this child calm down relatively quickly? oR DO THEY cry for a long amount of time?
Do they pull their hair?Bang their head? rock back n forth?
Do they go from one activity to the next..i.e. Little johnny sees a water table, goes over and sees a group of children playing, yells. grabs a boat and splashes around and then rund over to the blocks,. knocks some down and then goes over to the cars and crashes cars...gets in a toy car and does not have purpose except to crash into the gate over and over and over...these are all issues..
This does point ot hyper activity..however helping them to slow down will allow them to do internal regulation...making them follow through with an activity one on one will help them..trust me..it could be a simple puzzle..put it up and when the child comes around grab their attention and say "Hey come here I need help with this, we did not finish this" and keep at it..
But taking a child out of an environment because they are having a hard time? Or because we do not want to deal with it? Are we helping them?
Hmmm..well my first question would be "What does disruptive mean?"
This has many meanings..and if th techer is trying to read a book and has to stop..again why is she stopping? Is your daughter moving around? Is she laughing and leaning into other children? Is she making faces or being noisy?
At 4 and already attending a childcare setting for some time she should already know routine hence the teachers should be anticipating this behavior from your child...and 10 children is not alot of children, this is a very small group...I have had 8 12-36 month olds listen to a story with little disruptions...but I knew my kids...
At four it is very common to have 16 children in a group and let me assure you this is a quality standard..
The issue is that the teachers feel that this is disruptive to the other children whom have parents that pay for this service and it simply is not fair to them...
Speaking to the teacher probably would have been my first move upon receiving the note..again asking what the issue really is..the meaning of disruptive and the steps that are taken when your daughter behaves this way..how many assistants are there? A teacher should always have an asst. for these purposes...someone who can either sit right next to the child and shadow them, assist them in regaining control of themselves or taking them out of the situation so the others can enjoy the activity...
The fact that she does fine with the nanny is of no consequence to me since it is one on one and the nanny most likely follows the lead of the child and does what the child is interested in...in a group/center based setting the teacher must think of all the children and what the curriculum is going to be and actually teaching contrary to popular belief..
So the fact that your daughter will be starting a structured school envoronment soon? I would not take her out..I would speak to the teacher and ask what is going on and what YOU not the nanny can do to help yopur child
That's just it...they are not detailed when I talk to them and asked what happened. They are so busy dealing with the other kids, etc that they only take time to "really" talk to parents during parent/teacher conferences, which only happen during Fall/Spring semester. The Summer period is supposed to be more of a camp than "school." It's hard for me to suggest a way to handle a situation if they don't provide me all the facts. The classroom does have 2 teachers for when they have more than 5 kids. But I know at some point after 12noon they have one teacher step away for lunch, so the other teacher stays by herself. Other places I'm familiar with they bring a substitute person for that period, but not at this place.
As much as it pains me, I don't think this is the right environment for her. I have gotten different stories from the director at times (when I pick her up the teacher says she had a good day, some reminders but overall good...the director says quite a different story). She's now going to start PreK and my biggest focus is that even if it's a short day, I want her to get used to the environment of Kindergarden would be in a year. So, the school is only offering me 2 days a week, this is unnacceptable to us. I want her to go 5 days, even if they are shorter days and stay with me the rest of the time, or with nanny or at other activities. I have made numerous visits to different early childhood centers and decided to go with one where the director is truly involved with the children. She has a master's degree in psychology and good experience working at other early childhood centers. I have received great feedback from families that know her.
children with ADHD can learn..at 4? She is too young to be dx..
There is a rule of thumb I go by when I useto receive a new baby ( I call them all babies)
I would give the parents an assessment test and then I would do a personal ass. test based on what I saw in my classroom...
A good tool..ASQ and ASQ-SE...This is used with MFT'S aka Marriage and family therapists and anyone whom works with children in a state/federal program usually..
The ASQ is where a child is developmentally..however if a child scored low? I would not worry because this could mean many things..yes theie counterparts may have scored high but then again means nothing..
i.e. able to line blocks, associate by color, shape, group..i.e. cars, animals ect..
To me? It maybe because in the home this does not happen, either the concepts or toys are not there or parents do not know..so I provide these things and after 3 months of working with the child I will retest again...
ASQ-SE...the biggie this is the social emotional piece..
Does this child calm down relatively quickly? oR DO THEY cry for a long amount of time?
Do they pull their hair?Bang their head? rock back n forth?
Do they go from one activity to the next..i.e. Little johnny sees a water table, goes over and sees a group of children playing, yells. grabs a boat and splashes around and then rund over to the blocks,. knocks some down and then goes over to the cars and crashes cars...gets in a toy car and does not have purpose except to crash into the gate over and over and over...these are all issues..
This does point ot hyper activity..however helping them to slow down will allow them to do internal regulation...making them follow through with an activity one on one will help them..trust me..it could be a simple puzzle..put it up and when the child comes around grab their attention and say "Hey come here I need help with this, we did not finish this" and keep at it..
But taking a child out of an environment because they are having a hard time? Or because we do not want to deal with it? Are we helping them?
She has not been diagnosed with ADHD. She appears to show many traits that would describe it, but the diagnosis has not been made due to her age. Many of these traits/behaviors are age-related and usually fade away...some dont. So I am continuing to monitor her closely with the help of my spouse, the nanny, the psychologist.
The new PreK where she's going later this year is aware of all the incidents that have happened in the last several months. She will be running a true play-based environment. Part of what we do at home whether by reading, playing, etc is role playing and talk about the proper way to react to things, whether is with emotion, with movement, tone/volume, etc.
Also, reminders, and if/then statements usually help..but of course our goal would be to reduce the amount of those reminders and warnings. She's 4 so I also understand a lot of this is age related and hopefully with good attention she will be able to have more self-control.
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