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IQ is one measurement of intelligence, and the standard test used in schools these days, the Stanford Binet, can have a 15 point deviation. So someone who tests with an IQ of 135 could actually have an IQ of 125 or 150.
Do you mean a margin of error?
Typically a "deviation" in statistics means a deviation from the mean. It is true that 1 standard deviation from the mean on the Stanford Binet is 15 points with 100 being the mean and what 115 being one standard deviation from the mean. A 130 on the Stanford Binet is two standard deviations from the mean. That's why 130 is considered "gifted" -- it is two standard deviations from the mean which put the people scoring that high in the 98th percentile.
Just to keep the argument going I'll comment on my "gifted" brother. He and his friends (he went from grades 4-12 with pretty much the same group of students) never tried to dumb themselves down to fit in. Far from it. They'd been told they were special and they acted like it.
My brother probably knew was different from a very early age. Like when he'd correct the teacher in 2nd grade.
Another thing. He loved school. I hated it. Barely made B's. I intensely disliked the structure and the constant testing. And my parents realised it. I was tested and when the school district wanted to put me in special classes they said No. They knew I couldn't handle the pressure. Smartest thing they ever did. I took one AP class in high school: English. He graduated from high school looking like a Christmas tree. I had a star next to my name in the program because I had a B average. Barely.
Then I went to college and blossomed. I took the classes I wanted to take and a lot of lights went on for me. I pulled down straight A's for the first time in my life. (And no one was more surprised than me.) I graduated with grades that were VASTLY better than his. (Which I throw at him to this day when he gets a little too big for his britches. ) I don't think I'm gifted BTW. But I'm smart in the things that interest me. And my emotional intelligence is MUCH higher than his. I also don't get lost on my way to the mall lol.
Ah yeeeeessssss my beautiful friend, but WHY was it THOSE things you were interested in? You were somehow intuitively destined for those things? Cellular memory carried forward in the primordial goo, from our ancestors, somewhere in time? A genetic predisposition embedded in that microscopic DNA, simply waiting for the opportunity to reveal itself? Ooooo, now that's the kind of thing my mind loves to wrap around, like a tenacious octopus's tentacles. LOL Yes you see, look how smart and gifted he appeared to be.....until you were exposed to something you could "really wrap your brain around".....and your brilliance shot out like a comet! BANG!!! You do NOT want to live in my head...
I disagree that IQ is not a genetic characteristic.
I didn't say that IQ was not a genetic characteristic. I said that it isn't seen as one in the same way that eye color is, likely because you don't hear parents bragging about their children's eye color the way they do about their children's "giftedness."
Of course there is a genetic component to intelligence.
Bear in mind that this post is happening at 2:00 am and after three glasses of Reisling, but here it is.
What I really mean to say is that I think that parents these days have become far too competitive about their children's accomplishments. I think that parents today are far too caught up in what their children are doing, period. We all want to be proud of our kids, but when everything revolves around finding the perfect preschool (as if they aren't all pretty much fingerpaints and storytime anyway), getting the kids into the gifted program, revolving the family income around the Montessori tuition, it's too much. I think it's all well-intentioned parenting gone terribly awry. Our kids need a great deal from us, and perspective is at the top of the list.
What I really believe in regards to the original post is that saying that a child is acting up because he is "gifted" is just nonsense. A child is acting up because he/she either has some kind of problem that prevents him/her from understanding appropriate behavior or he/she hasn't been taught what is an isn't appropriate behavior or he/she is using the inappropriate behavior as a means of getting attention.
Crap. Don't you all just ever want to take a break from all of this grooming kids for future success business and make a mud pie or something? Or better yet, have an adult conversation not about children? You know, like about a book or a film or something? Of course, this is exactly why I don't fit in with most of the moms I know...because I say and think things like this.
Typically a "deviation" in statistics means a deviation from the mean. It is true that 1 standard deviation from the mean on the Stanford Binet is 15 points with 100 being the mean and what 115 being one standard deviation from the mean. A 130 on the Stanford Binet is two standard deviations from the mean. That's why 130 is considered "gifted" -- it is two standard deviations from the mean which put the people scoring that high in the 98th percentile.
Yes. You are correct. Thank you for clarifying my word choice.
What I really mean to say is that I think that parents these days have become far too competitive about their children's accomplishments. I think that parents today are far too caught up in what their children are doing, period. We all want to be proud of our kids, but when everything revolves around finding the perfect preschool (as if they aren't all pretty much fingerpaints and storytime anyway), getting the kids into the gifted program, revolving the family income around the Montessori tuition, it's too much. I think it's all well-intentioned parenting gone terribly awry. Our kids need a great deal from us, and perspective is at the top of the list.
What I really believe in regards to the original post is that saying that a child is acting up because he is "gifted" is just nonsense. A child is acting up because he/she either has some kind of problem that prevents him/her from understanding appropriate behavior or he/she hasn't been taught what is an isn't appropriate behavior or he/she is using the inappropriate behavior as a means of getting attention.
Crap. Don't you all just ever want to take a break from all of this grooming kids for future success business and make a mud pie or something? Or better yet, have an adult conversation not about children? You know, like about a book or a film or something? Of course, this is exactly why I don't fit in with most of the moms I know...because I say and think things like this.
OK, now this I can agree with!!
1) I agree that in the OP, the giftedness is unrelated to the behavior
2) I agree that *many* parents who claim their child is "gifted" does not really have a "gifted" child, maybe highly intelligent, but not gifted.
I have often wished that my gifted DS would just be regularly smart but not gifted...with all the quirks it has entailed. Having a gifted child can be exhausting.
3) Just FYI, my DS attends a Montessori elementary school and it is less expensive than many of the other private schools in the area. (Public school is not an option here). Their preschool program is pricey, though, and my DD goes to a church preschool.
4) I agree that parents contribute to children growing up even faster now....and yes, just hanging out with your children and enjoying them as children is wonderful.
5) My son's giftedness is not the main thing about him, for me.
Another thing. He loved school. I hated it. Barely made B's. I intensely disliked the structure and the constant testing. And my parents realised it. I was tested and when the school district wanted to put me in special classes they said No. They knew I couldn't handle the pressure. Smartest thing they ever did. I took one AP class in high school: English. He graduated from high school looking like a Christmas tree. I had a star next to my name in the program because I had a B average. Barely.
Then I went to college and blossomed. I took the classes I wanted to take and a lot of lights went on for me. I pulled down straight A's for the first time in my life. (And no one was more surprised than me.) I graduated with grades that were VASTLY better than his. (Which I throw at him to this day when he gets a little too big for his britches. ) I don't think I'm gifted BTW. But I'm smart in the things that interest me. And my emotional intelligence is MUCH higher than his. I also don't get lost on my way to the mall lol.
Really interesting post!
I wonder also if you and your brother have different learning styles. Perhaps he is an auditory-sequencing learner, which fits right in with most schools. Are you a visual learner? Or maybe when you had the freedom to be your own person you felt the freedom to excel (like you were out of his shadow?)
Although I agree that each and every one of God's children are blessed with different talents....I need my doctor and my mechanic and maybe they need one of my skills....
...I strongly disagree with the premise that everyone is gifted in terms of intellectul ability.
We are discussing IQ, basically. A person with an IQ of 133 or above is less than 1% of the population.
It's like saying everyone can pitch like Randy Johnson. 99% or more cannot throw a ball like he can. It is a gift. And it is the same with intellegence. People who are exceptionally intelligent are GIFTED in that way.
Yes, people have a variety of talents, but please do not take away from the intellectually gifted with these types of platitudes.
However - in many schools, far more than 1% of the children are in so-called "gifted" classrooms.
IQ doesn't mean someone has a true gift, there are some gifted children who really have a talent in music but aren't great in math or science. Someone with a high IQ might be adept enough in everything without being extremely brilliant in any one category.
In many schools, there are very average kids being put in gifted programs while the higher IQ kids are not because of parental pressure on the school.
The truly gifted are also often late bloomers and are bypassed in the 3rd grade from these programs where the bright enough but also very well-behaved child is selected by a very average teacher who cannot really judge.
If someone has a strong aptitude for physics or chemistry, that isn't going to show up in 3rd grade, what teachers at that grade level tend to select are kids with good verbal skills, good organizational skills so that they turn in their homework and keep their desks tidy.
Ah yeeeeessssss my beautiful friend, but WHY was it THOSE things you were interested in? You were somehow intuitively destined for those things? Cellular memory carried forward in the primordial goo, from our ancestors, somewhere in time? A genetic predisposition embedded in that microscopic DNA, simply waiting for the opportunity to reveal itself? Ooooo, now that's the kind of thing my mind loves to wrap around, like a tenacious octopus's tentacles. LOL Yes you see, look how smart and gifted he appeared to be.....until you were exposed to something you could "really wrap your brain around".....and your brilliance shot out like a comet! BANG!!! You do NOT want to live in my head...
Too late! I already do. I think about this a lot. I call it "genetic memory". If we can inherit great grandma's nose, why can't we inherit her memories? Surely there must be an explanation for my insane love of the bagpipes? Why was I able to read Beowulf and understand it? Not just the language but know what motivated the characters? Why does pouring over blueprints and floorplans relax me? I've never studied architecture. I suck at math. Why could I walk into a building when I was 10 and know which were the load bearing walls? How did I even know about load bearing walls?
Calgirlinnc: Several things happened when I got to college:
1) Nobody knew who my brother was. Oh, happy day! The professors didn't say, "Your X's sister? Please sit in the front row and stun us with your brillance!" (Crap, I hated that.)
2) I literally stumbled my was throught the course catalog. Linguistics! OMG! They'll let me study why some people call it a "tap" and some people call it a "faucet" and some people call it a "spigot"? They'll give you grades for this? Bliss!
3) I met all kinds of people. Paralyzed Vietnam war vets. Daughters of movie stars and Federal judges and sons of fruit pickers and dock workers. To be able to sit with them and discuss life and then be able to go into a writing class and let it just pour out of me? For the exam? Thank you Jesus!
Lol - We must meet and talk Beachmel and Calgirl. Meet and talk. (And why do I constantly have lines from movies in my head? )
I know a child who tested in the "gifted" IQ who is in advanced math but remedial reading. Her mother jokes about how she doesn't believe one bit in the results of the IQ test.
My dd#1 tested into gifted, and she's a straight A student who doesn't really have to work for her grades, but I still question the test results. She's a bright girl, but I don't see how she can be in the top 1% of the population. And parental pressure does factor in. One of the girls in "gifted" with my daughter retook the test four times at her mother's insistence. That kind of hyperfocus on the "gifted" label is ridiculous.
However - in many schools, far more than 1% of the children are in so-called "gifted" classrooms.
Well, that's public education for you.
IQ doesn't mean someone has a true gift, there are some gifted children who really have a talent in music but aren't great in math or science. Someone with a high IQ might be adept enough in everything without being extremely brilliant in any one category.
Yes, I refer to this is one of my pp's; I am not talking about gifted in sports or music though, just overall gifted in intelligence. Don't you think that high intelligence as in top 1% is a gift in and of itself though?
In many schools, there are very average kids being put in gifted programs while the higher IQ kids are not because of parental pressure on the school.
The truly gifted are also often late bloomers and are bypassed in the 3rd grade from these programs where the bright enough but also very well-behaved child is selected by a very average teacher who cannot really judge.
Absolutely. Also in a pp I have argued that the kids who do best in school are those who have a high IQ but are not necessarily "gifted". A gifted child may have many "quirks" that prevent him or her from excelling in a traditional classroom.
If someone has a strong aptitude for physics or chemistry, that isn't going to show up in 3rd grade, what teachers at that grade level tend to select are kids with good verbal skills, good organizational skills so that they turn in their homework and keep their desks tidy.
I would say that there is a general misunderstanding about the basic traits of gifted individuals...for example, that they will automatically do well in school, or that their giftedness will show up at an early age.
^^
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) I don't think I'm gifted BTW. But I'm smart in the things that interest me. And my emotional intelligence is MUCH higher than his. I also don't get lost on my way to the mall lol.
LOL Yes you see, look how smart and gifted he appeared to be.....until you were exposed to something you could "really wrap your brain around".....and your brilliance shot out like a comet! BANG!!! 
You do NOT want to live in my head...
