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ALL of the videos I saw demonstrate this. I have not yet seen a single video of a homeschooled/unschooled adult who was capable of presenting his thoughts clearly.
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Originally Posted by AnonChick
Really Nana, I don't need for you to imbed videos onto threads. If you can't speak for yourself and have to have someone else's youtube speak on your behalf, then I'm not going to consider your point of view to hold much validity. It's all just spam, to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnonChick
Also Dorthy, thanks for that link, I've actually heard of Astra Taylor, and the New School, and of course Parson's. I don't know if I'll be watching the video, since it's over an hour long and I'd be staring at a tiny box around 4"x4" while listening to it with really crappy 15-year-old headphones...
I don't think I have the patience for that. But I might try and snatch the first handful of minutes.
Okay, I'm done. This is all just devolving into silliness.
Sitting with agemates spending an hour waiting for the slowest kids in the class to catch up (or for the teacher to give up on the unmotivated and move along) is what we've chose to let go.
So, how are your perfectly educated children going to handle the "slower" kids in life? They will have to interact w/ them one day; more or less likely in a work setting. Unless there are perfectly self-sufficient & will only associate with those who also received the perfect homeschooling education...?
I'm not sure it's possible to speak for "most homeschoolers", serrendipity. We're a diverse enough group I doubt you could get us to agree on the color of the sky, most days.
For that matter, I have no idea what "unschoolers and homeschoolers tests" even are. Some of our friends take the FCAT, some do tests as part of their curriculum, and personally, I find that I know whether my kids have mastered a skill after talking to them and don't rely on formal tests. (We've pH-tested seawater in science classes, and tested for the presence of e coli, but I don't think that's what you're talking about.) Since not all non-traditional-school folks test, I don't think you'd have a "more accurate" picture of much of anything.
Actually having the homeschooling groups scores seperate from the unschooling groups scores would likely provide data on effectiveness. Why so defensive???
Homeschooling is not the same as unschooling, private schools, or public schools. Their all different. Who knows maybe the unschooling has better scores than all of the above. But, how will you know if their scores are lumped together???
As for me having a accurate picture. Perhaps it was a bit premature to say most homeschoolers think that. I should have said most that most homeschooled parent's I've talked to think that. But, saying, "I don't have a accurate picture of anything," lol. Well....I think someones defensive for a reason, lol. As for tests, you admit you don't even know what they are. Good luck getting your kid in College. Not sure how your even following state mandates given your post
People can and do adapt and who knows, they may end up doing something completely unconventional for a living.
How are you seeing unschooling being incorporated in your area and what about it bothers you? I'm a homeschooler and know 2 families who unschool. They do things very different from one another.
I agree with you that it starts and ends at home.
Homeschooling and unschooling are alternatives to the traditional educational model as are private schools, charter schools, magnet schools and alternative schools. Every family has the opportunity to decide which method would be best for their child and their family. What is best for some may not be best for others. There aren't a lot of statistics and research on unschoolers but they do fall within the realm of homeschooling and research shows that homeschoolers are doing just fine when compared to their school peers.
I think that was a really good post. I homeschool. I think unschoolers and homeschoolers tests shouldn't be lumped together. To be honest I have no idea if unschooling works. I see a lot of unschoolers that seem to be parents who just happen to have their kid staying home. Not all...let me add my disclaimor.
I mean wouldn't it be nice to have some data on unschooling. I for one would like to know if it's really working. Maybe I would reevaluate my homeschooling philosophy if I found out their scores were much better than a homeschooler.
I mean wouldn't it be nice to have some data on unschooling. I for one would like to know if it's really working. Maybe I would reevaluate my homeschooling philosophy if I found out their scores were much better than a homeschooler.
It depends on what you mean by "working". It absolutely works in my home. How do I know? My kids are happy, engaged, engaging people, with varied interests. I have NO idea what their test scores are, and I've found at this point, it doesn't matter. If they choose to go on to college, then we'll get out the texts and workbooks, to make sure they're prepared to go.
For the earlier years, it would probably not look like it was "working" at all for most unschooling families, if you'd be going by only test scores. Natural learning doesn't work like school learning - you can't really quantify it. Some kids would be "behind" in math or reading. Others, undoubtedly, would be "ahead". But the radical unschooling families I know look beyond that, to: Does my child know how to learn? (Obviously, they do.) Does my child know how to get information they need? Are they happy? Are we connected as a family?
It's such a different worldview, it's difficult to talk about in conventional schooling or homeschooling terms. We KNOW it's working, but to "prove" that to anyone else would be nearly impossible, because we're working with two (at least!) different scales.
I meant it would make one wonder if unschooling scores were higher, than public, private, homeschool scores. I must admit I am very curious. I don't have the answer but to be frank if the unschooling scores were higher than public alone I can't be the only one that would find that kind of data fascinating.
I don't personally unschool, but of course I'm always curious about what might be working or not and why. Maybe the science scores, etc. I think it's good to be open to new information.
my 4 year old can read, do 1st grade math, stand in a line, not run in the street, put on a coat when he's cold, pour himself and his 2 year old brother a glass of water (yes, i said *glass*), among many, many other things i did not "teach" him.
he LEARNED them.
he learned to read by asking me to read to him. i've read him thousands of books because he asked me to.
he learned math partially from the books he asked me to read to him, partially by necessity. "mommy, can i have 4 cookies? 2 for me and 2 for brother?" "can you get me 9 beads? 3 blue, 3 red, 3 green?"
a few days ago, his friend had a kid's set of bow and arrows. he picked it up and within 15 minutes he was off. he figured out that if he aims higher, the arrow will go farther. physics, anyone?
this morning, he was showing a different friend a book he has about human bodies. she asked him all about it and he was able to answer all of her questions.
he also talked to her about the way they like their sandwiches cut. she said she likes it in triangles but her mom always cuts it into squares. my guy said that he likes it in triangles and "uh.. they listen."
to those asking "how are they going to know what there is to know if it isn't presented to them?":
have you ever been around a small child? they ask "why?" at least once every 5 minutes. answer them! THAT'S how they know. children WANT to learn.
i think that people are confused by the words "teach" and "learn."
if i came up to you with my sewing machine and a stack of fabric and said "ok! now it's time for me to teach you how to sew!" i don't think you would absorb much of it.
if you saw a pair of super awesome pants on a crafting blog and REALLY wanted to make them and asked him "hey! can you come over and help me make these pants?" you'd be a lot more likely to want to learn to sew and then a lot more likely to want to sew again later.
I don't necessarily have an issue with unschooling, but I also think it's kind of pushing things to use such a formal word to describe a four-year old; kids that age aren't in school, anyway. Many are in preschool, although even that's often just a couple of times a week. Not to say that your child won't make a great unschooler later on (or isn't soaking up things right now!), but I don't know that it's really accurate to describe the activities of a child that age as something that can even be categorized into "unschooling," "homeschooling," or any other category.
Last edited by uptown_urbanist; 03-07-2011 at 04:48 PM..
I don't necessarily have an issue with unschooling, but I also think it's kind of pushing things to use such a formal word to describe a four-year old; kids that age aren't in school, anyway. Many are in preschool, although even that's often just a couple of times a week. Not to say that your child won't make a great unschooler later on (or isn't soaking up things right now!), but I don't know that it's really accurate to describe the activities of a child that age as something that can even be categorized into "unschooling," "homeschooling," or any other category.
I agree. Many four year olds teach themselves to read, count, etc. It's a long way from shooting arrows to e=mc2 in physics. There was an article in some scientific magazine recently about how athletes judge how to catch the ball, and how that really isn't physics, per se.
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Originally Posted by itsrtimedownhere
whole-life unschooling can happen at any age.
for many, unschooling is a lifestyle choice, not a schooling option.
i believe unschooling begins at birth. for example, allowing babies to sleep when they are tired vs forcing them into a sleep schedule.
Well, yes, I'd agree with the above, but I never called it "unschooling". I guess there's a name for everything.
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