Moving from Southern California to Oregon (Portland, Medford: sales tax, to live, restaurant)
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Wow... Steve, Dan and Rod you all make some amazing points and arguments regarding the tax situation in Oregon. I am drawn to Oregon because of its "no sales tax" laws (and about 600 other things) and when I hear people talk of perhaps implementing taxes there I think "Oh no!" but when you really step outside of that initial reaction and the idea itself, the reality of it really does sink in. Taxes are a source of funding for very important resources (education, roads etc.) and Steve you make a very good case for people sharing the burden and rejecting unnecessary material things for the good of the community.
It's so hard with all the consumer pressure to buy "the latest version" of this and that what with pop up advertisements on the computers, billboards, Huge TV screens over the freeway advertising (In California), TV's in each check out lane at the grocery store advertising, every commercial, every person on the street pushing their product, and making products that rely on purchasing many other products. In California it is SO hard to reject such repeated inundations and just be happy with what you have. I don't have a TV anymore and I don't have the Internet at home anymore either (just at work) so I'm slowly cutting out the unnecessary stuff but it's so hard! The latest thing is offering totally FREE services but you have to watch/listen to an advertisement first. You're drawn to the idea of the free service obviously and for a lot of people, FORCED to it financially and then constantly bombarded with pressure to buy buy buy.
The way this Capitalist society is turning is sickening and it really scares me. Capitalism is good in a way... but it's getting really out of control. That's a huge reason I want to get out of California. Even if you don't have a TV at home you are forced to watch it everywhere you go and still get bum rushed every place you turn by an advertisement. I don't really think it's gotten that bad in other places but I know that California (LA area), Las Vegas and New York are the worst offenders. I just need to get away from all this and be happy with what I have because I AM happy with what I have... if only they'd leave me alone.
There has to be some underlying economic reasons why more industries are not taking advantage of Oregon’s highly skilled labor force.
The overall costs of doing business in OR are lower than in WA, and lower than the national average... with one exception, OR's 6.6% corporate and 9% personal income taxes.
The Oregon Progress Board makes some interesting comparisons between OR and WA. http://www.oregon.gov/DAS/OPB/2005report/obm_list.shtml (broken link)
OR produces substantially lower incomes, greater income disparity and higher unemployment than WA. I've never understood why.
Most troubling to me is Oregon's educational system, which is the key to its future. College graduation rates, long above average, have fallen to the national average (due to high tuition costs), while the proportion of Oregon high school graduates qualified to enter college has now fallen below average. These indicators do not bode well for the state's future.
Again, apologies for straying off the topic of a relocation forum, and thank you Steve and Dan for the stimulating conversations.
I just wanted to say I relocated to Oregon a little over a year ago from the Midwest. I love it here! I think that some people who complain might be taking things for granted. Growing up in a plains state, I can't tell you how wonderful the natural resources are! Snow capped mountain peaks, crystal rivers, bubbling streams, waterfalls, ocean beaches shouldn't be taken for granted because trust me you don't have those everywhere you go. It is so incredibly green here, and the trees are huge! I don't mind the rain at all, it sure beats the brown, brown winters from where I come from. I don't even think its that bad. Many places get as much rainfall in a year but it comes in occasional torrential downpours, not more steady drizzle and mist. When I was moving to Oregon people told me it would rain for 9 months straight. That was an exxageration! There are plenty of clear beautiful days even in the winter months. Where I am from even on the clear days in the winter it isn't enjoyable because of the ice-cold 35 mph winds. So consider yourselves lucky! This is actually some of the mildest weather imaginable. My home state has hot, humid summers with tons of insects to my knowledge not even found in Western Oregon, like nasty blood-sucking disease carrying ticks. The winters are freezing and maybe you get nice weather a week or two in the spring and fall, but mostly you just go straight from summer into winter and vice versa. Shortly after moving here, my neighbor asked me one morning about the "storm" the night before. Honestly I didn't have the faintest idea what he was talking about! Where I'm from a storm means you sit huddled with your whole family in an 8 X 8 underground storm cellar and hope you still have a house when you emerge. As for hicks and rednecks, come back home with me and I will introduce to some SERIOUS ones, as yet I haven't met any in Oregon though. In my home state I lived next door to people who would get drunk and start shooting anything that moved, at times even hitting my property (I have small children and horses who could have been hit). I once actually witnessed a couple of men speaking Spanish to each other be told to shut up and speak English. An African-American family I knew had a cross burned in their yard. Seriously. I knew I needed someplace better to raise our family.
Since moving to Oregon our quality of life has vastly improved. People are very friendly and have been quite welcoming. They ask why we moved when I first meet them but when I talk about how much I like it here and how it is a good fit for us they smile and nod and are very nice and welcoming. I am from a part of the country known for its hospitality but I have to say everyone here is much friendlier and less judgemental. The parks, recreation opportunities, and things for families and children to be involved in is amazing to me. Those things aren't available in nearly the quantity or quality where I'm from. Also my daughter has some disabilities and the accessibility and access to and abundance of services here for her have been wonderful. To tell you the truth, I didn't know what to expect when I moved here, I thought I would probably be screamed at for driving an SUV and eating meat. However I find some of the most accepting, non-judgemental people live here. I have never ever felt unwelcome.
I absolutely love it here. Catching a glimpse of Mt Hood takes my breath away every single time. I love that my kids will grow up going to the beach during the summer and skiing in the winter. Skiing and beaches are nonexistant in my home state. The trees are just beautiful, the people are too. I have been pleasantly surprised by living in Oregon and I never knew a place could have such an effect on our lives. I will live here the rest of my life. It is much more expensive than where I come from but sometimes you truly do get what you pay for. I could never go back, even though I could afford an estate for what we paid for our average home. There are reasons people want to live here. I just thought I would add a different perspective.
Melin,
What an absolutly WONDERFUL post!!! Im so happy to read about how happy you are here!!! Grand to read about how much someone loves Oregon that moved here from another state too!!! Youre post really just made my day. - but, I do have to tell you some bad news, we do have ticks, and they can carry diseases, such as lime disease. Personally, Ive never had one on me, but my cousin works out in the woods, and she had one end up in her leg last summer. ugh. So, just an fyi.
anyhow, thank you so much for your delightful post!!! Im so happy youre an Oregonian now!!
Tiffany
The overall costs of doing business in OR are lower than in WA, and lower than the national average... with one exception, OR's 6.6% corporate and 9% personal income taxes.
The Oregon Progress Board makes some interesting comparisons between OR and WA. http://www.oregon.gov/DAS/OPB/2005report/obm_list.shtml (broken link)
OR produces substantially lower incomes, greater income disparity and higher unemployment than WA. I've never understood why.
Most troubling to me is Oregon's educational system, which is the key to its future. College graduation rates, long above average, have fallen to the national average (due to high tuition costs), while the proportion of Oregon high school graduates qualified to enter college has now fallen below average. These indicators do not bode well for the state's future.
Again, apologies for straying off the topic of a relocation forum, and thank you Steve and Dan for the stimulating conversations.
Regarding the 9% personal income tax, it should be taken into consideration that Oregonians can deduct part of the 9% from our Federal Income Tax. Sperling states our personal income tax is really about 7%.
Bob oh boy, a lot of you are bringing up this riff with Californians. Well, I am a native Oregonian and my step grandfather even resented me when I would come to visit. We were in the kitchen having decaffeinated coffee and cookies when out of the blue he said, And how much money do you make anyway.” I could never get him to understand that his income is tied to the economy of the local area. When Californians move to Oregon, they bring a lot of money with them and their willingness to spend it. All of the money spent raises the standard of living of all people in the area so they too can afford nice homes and new cars. My first 21 years was spent in Oregon. I moved to Flint, Michigan to better my income. It took me 19 years to learn that if I wanted my income to grow, I had to move once again. I chose San Diego, California. Now that I am retired, I want to move back home to my Oregon. I was born in Portland, raised in Roseburg, and last lived in Salem. I love small towns and miss the friendliness of its people. I hope you will welcome me back home.
Clear2land
Clear2land, I hope they welcome you back also. We new arrivals like the whole scene - the second-hand cars, lack of designer clothes (especially among teenagers) the laid-back attitude and casual atmosphere. To be told the perceptions of us are so negative, to lump us in with the Malibu-types, is false. I don't understand the need to do this but will be more aware of this when we move out. Yes we plan to leave when our daughter finishes high school. We'll come back to visit, though. The locals liked us (or should I say, people 'like us', whatever that means) when we were just visitors.
Well it is to bad you are moving. I would love to have you as a neighbor. Being a native Oregonian, I have never been one to really dress up. I had to wear suits for years and just hated it. I now own one suit and I don’t know if it even fits anymore. My wife says that I have never been a fashion statement and she is right. Sometimes I wonder if a restaurant will let me in. No, I like casual. To look at me, you would think that I don’t have two nickels to rub together. I try to stay understated except when it comes to my passion for sports cars. I have a 1999 Mercedes SLK, push a button and the top folds into the trunk, with 22,000 miles and a 2003 50th Anniversary Corvette, which is the best car I have ever owned. Without going overboard, we do intend to buy a nice house. I would like three or four garages. I will be looking to partner with someone on an airplane and I intend to volunteer a lot. I will not give permission to anyone to give me a hard time about where I’m from or engage in I hate California talk of any kind. In fact, one way to lose me as a friend it to bad mouth someone else. All I can say is that it is tough banana’s, I’m moving to my home state of Oregon no matter if the locals like it or not. You get out of this world just about as much as you put into it. Lastly, we like Ashland, but not enough to live there. I hope you won’t give up on your finding happiness in Southern Oregon.
Thank you for your comments. I live in California, and can't wait to get out of here. My husband and I are so tired of the way californians treat this state. We moved from Southern to Central hopeing for a change and got none. We were in Oregon on our way and to and from Washington in July. I had been there before. I was born in Washington and used to drive up to the Northwest as a child. My husband had never been to either state. My father was born and raised in Tacoma he past away last summer. We went up to spread his ashes in the sound... I had always loved Oregon and on my husbands 1st visit he feel in love with it... And can't wait to get there. Our children can't wait to move there either.
Thank you for your comments. I live in California, and can't wait to get out of here. My husband and I are so tired of the way californians treat this state. We moved from Southern to Central hopeing for a change and got none. We were in Oregon on our way and to and from Washington in July. I had been there before. I was born in Washington and used to drive up to the Northwest as a child. My husband had never been to either state. My father was born and raised in Tacoma he past away last summer. We went up to spread his ashes in the sound... I had always loved Oregon and on my husbands 1st visit he feel in love with it... And can't wait to get there. Our children can't wait to move there either.
Thank you again for your nice comments.
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I Love Oregon!
- but, I do have to tell you some bad news, we do have ticks, and they can carry diseases, such as lime disease. Personally, Ive never had one on me, but my cousin works out in the woods, and she had one end up in her leg last summer. ugh. So, just an fyi. 
