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Please don't hijack thread for political messages. Thanks everyone.
I've personally read through this to page seven because I've also considered OR as a retirement destination, and pretty much share your "world view" on what would make a good place to live socially (although I likely weight good choices in medical care a slightly higher priority). I am also a "purple dot", currently living in the deep blue sea of Cook County, IL. I've always liked the idea of Roseburg, but may have to get closer to the Tri-Cities. Having proximity to the Columbia would never be a bad thing. Hopefully, the glow from Hanford is irradiating the Covid-19, LOL. I had a terrifying thought last night that we are all in the middle of a "Walking Dead" analogy, where we are all infected, don't realize it, and the dormancy spontaneously breaks and we become symptomatic or infectious, that's the only way my subconscious could handle the "patchy" rates of infection throughout the country - the Google doesn't support that nightmare, however.
MtnSurfer - If you were to look at all of our criteria it would probably fall into to buckets: The variables that Smaller towns possess (charm, walkability, general feel, recreational options) and those that go in the Big City bucket (access to top notch healthcare, a symphony or other major arts options like a museum, big concerts, major airport access, big box stores).
Lets define "Smaller Towns" as population between 35k and 65k as a soft start. No "one stop light" towns please - way too small.
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Back to the suggestions. They are all great and I'm looking at some. My wife has been to Wenatchee and Lake Chelan a few times, and while she totally agrees both are beautiful and loves the lake, she fears there would not be enough to keep someone, esp. me, sufficiently occupied (I lean Type A). I'm trying to "read the tea leaves" that this could be an "early warning indicator" of how we would or wouldn't adjust. This would apply to Ashland and many of the small town ideas suggested on this thread.
Having said that, and given what I hear from people here and doing some additional introspection, I'm feeling like the sweet spot could be a smaller charming town that is within, say, 45 min to an hour of a large city (lets say 200k min.), we could make that leap and feel like we're not sacrificing too much in either direction. At least you have the relatively easy option to get out of the small town if and when the mood (or necessity) strikes you. That of course narrows down options and makes the search more challenging. I'm spitballing some places (on first pass) that seem to fit (and yes, I KNOW there are some extreme differences from one another, so no need to point that out ...lol)
Couer D'Alene -> Spokane
Durango -> Colorado Springs
Santa Fe - > Albuquerque
Henderson -> Las Vegas
Beaufort/Hilton Head -> Savannah or Charleston
Blowing Rock -> Asheville
San Marcos -> Austin or San Antonio
Hood River -> Portland
Incline Village/ N Lake Tahoe -> Reno
Sedona -> Flagstaff
Ahh Asheville...surprisingly we have not spent a lot of time there, so much of what I'll offer is anecdotal and what we know living in NC for the past 8 yrs. NC in general is a preety good place.
Like you, we've lived in very large cities within even larger metros. I grew up in Los Angeles county surrounded by the concrete jungle of SoCal which only got more crowded over time. Since then we've lived in Colorado Springs, Monterey and now Vancouver. The Monterey/Carmel area is almost exactly what you've described with its small town charms far enough outside the big city (San Jose, SF) yet close enough to world class medical care (Stanford) as well other big cities amenities. And of course concert options right in town with the Monterey Jazz Festival and other cool local events. That said, its prime coastal CA and Big $$ to own a home. But the Big Sur coastline almost makes it worth it if you can swing the price.
Now in Vancouver with Portland at our doorstep, we're loving it here as well. As much as I enjoy visiting smaller towns far from large cities, like you, I know after a while I would miss having that access. Its ideal for us to be outside the big city but not too far. Portland has many nice smaller towns within ~ hour or so. Hood River is a fun little town. TexasDiver gave some other good options to consider on the OR and WA side. It really comes down to personal preferences and that stage.
After living in the 'The Springs' and visiting many smaller towns outside Denver and CS, I couldn't find one I would want to retire in. But I really prefer living below a mile high and to have more green with less snow year round. Durango is on the opposite side of the state (west of the Rockies) from CS. It's ~ 5-6 hour drive. We have relatives in Denver and others in Ridgway which is closer to Durango and the beautiful San Juan mountains. They love mountaineering/ice climbing, so its a great spot for them after living in DC. That area of CO was my favorite to visit. Fall colors are amazing with all the aspen trees.
Yup. Over and over and over. And never more true than now.
What's getting wrecked? I'd ask you to be specific and not just talk about orange man bad or hot takes on red state covid response (both stupid) but I won't hijack the thread. I also won't let lame insults with nothing to back them up go unchallenged so here you go.
two words: Banana Belt. Best kept secret: Roseburg, Oregon. Check out the weather. Plans are in the making for a retirement mecca with more medical facilities being built. Wine country? yes. Cultural arts? yes. Theater? community theater as well as community college productions. Outdoor music in the park, movies in the park. Politics? yes. (ok, so the majority are conservative with more moving into the moderate pathway) Two-hour drives? Yes! east to Crater Lake, West to the ocean, north to Eugene shopping and an additional hour gets you into Portland, and south to Medford; no matter which way you want to go there is an abundance of outdoor recreational things to do as well as wine tours, Holt center productions, fishing, camping, Doc Stewart baseball, Duck sports and more. Check out the weather first and see how much snow we get, then check out our high temps and our low temps are shockers for even the natives as this is truly the banana belt of Oregon. Don't move here if you can get along with people of all sizes, religions, ages, etc.,
two words: Banana Belt. Best kept secret: Roseburg, Oregon. Check out the weather. Plans are in the making for a retirement mecca with more medical facilities being built. Wine country? yes. Cultural arts? yes. Theater? community theater as well as community college productions. Outdoor music in the park, movies in the park. Politics? yes. (ok, so the majority are conservative with more moving into the moderate pathway) Two-hour drives? Yes! east to Crater Lake, West to the ocean, north to Eugene shopping and an additional hour gets you into Portland, and south to Medford; no matter which way you want to go there is an abundance of outdoor recreational things to do as well as wine tours, Holt center productions, fishing, camping, Doc Stewart baseball, Duck sports and more. Check out the weather first and see how much snow we get, then check out our high temps and our low temps are shockers for even the natives as this is truly the banana belt of Oregon. Don't move here if you can get along with people of all sizes, religions, ages, etc.,
I know Roseburg has a reputation as a very white and racist place but it can't be that bad?
I know Roseburg has a reputation as a very white and racist place but it can't be that bad?
There's a good population of Hispanics and Native Americans, and I think every convenience store in town is owned by Sikhs, but there are almost no blacks.
I may be one of the few on this forum that actually lives in Ashland, so I'll attempt to answer your questions, as best as I can.
Taxes - I personally think the property taxes are insane. Those who have lived here for decades say they are better now than they used to be. That's because homeowners' taxes used to be based on MARKET value instead of ASSESSED value. They changed the law back in the 90s. They now tax on assessed value, but are allowed to raise our taxes 3% a year, with no cap!!! The only thing that changes that is if your assessed value ever exceeds your market value. Plus, they put something on the ballot every election, asking for just a few dollars more. As an old-timer said to me recently "Ashlanders have never met a tax they didn't love". Not me. I lived in CA for 35 years before coming here (yes, I'm one of those awful transplants), and my property taxes are the same here, as they were in the Bay Area, and my home was worth twice as much in California.
Sensitive stuff - Yes, they call Medford "Methford", but Ashland has a drug problem, too. It's not as big or as noticeable, because Medford has 80,000 people, and Ashland has 20,000. But it still exists. Highway I-5 corridor runs from Mexico to the Canadian border, right through Oregon, so there is increased drug traffic and use. We do have a homeless problem. Not like the big cities, but this is a relatively small town, with a small quaint downtown. We are a tourist destination, with the oldest and largest Shakespeare company in the U.S. People come from all over the world. So, to have homeless, transients, wannabe-hippies hang out downtown, it doesn't bode well for tourism. I probably am in the minority on this, but Ashland is pretty permissive with the problem. Alot of the people who hang out downtown aren't "our" homeless people, they are "transients", traveling up the west coast, living the nomadic life style.
Weather - I love the weather. We have 4 very mild seasons. Spring and Fall are gorgeous. Summer is not too terribly hot. We do get some snow in the winter, but it only lasts a few days. The annual rainfall is the same as it was in the SF Bay Area where I lived. We are socked in between 2 mountain ranges, and I think alot of the "weather" just drifts over us.
Politics - This is a very liberal town. You will not be shunned, but you will be in the minority. I find it easiest to just not get into political discussions, if possible (easier said than done, I know).
California-haters - This one I love. The vast majority of the people who live in Ashland, and in Southern Oregon, for that matter, are from California. With that said, the major complaint I hear from people is that the Californians drive up the real estate prices. In reality it's the sellers in Ashland who over price their homes constantly, with the goal of nabbing some unsuspecting Californian (I've heard them say it). Sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't. Because Californians are used to such ridiculous prices, they come here and the prices don't seem so bad. In the end the Californians get blamed for the high price of homes!! What really makes Ashland home prices high (by Oregon standards) is that the town has a very small footprint and doesn't allow expansion, plus this is a huge tourist town.
In an attempt to be honest, I hope I haven't painted a dismal picture of Ashland. This is a quaint, walkable university town. The education level of the residents is impressive. We have a huge senior continuing education program, with instructors with stellar credentials. There is virtually no traffic, congestion, wait times, etc. I still marvel at the fact that you can just walk into a restaurant and sit down. There is tons to do. We have 5+ theater companies in the county. There is an endless supply of outdoor activities, hiking trails, the Rogue River. Most of the people are warm and friendly. Everyone I know here is busier in retirement than they ever were working.
However, like everywhere, we don't know what the future holds for this town. We were already suffering economically because of 2 straight summers of wildfires. Shakespeare lost money; the retail stores and restaurants lost money. The tourists stayed away. Then when COVID-19 hit it just made everything worse. Many places have permanently closed. Shakespeare will not open at all this year. That's millions in income. So, I personally wouldn't jump at the chance to retire here just yet. This town could be hurting for a long while.
With that said, best of luck with your search.
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Originally Posted by NC_Cpl
OK, here we go. I've posted on C-D before so I know for experience how quickly threads can get hijacked down a road completely unrelated to the OP questions, so I'll ask all you nice people to stay focused, objective, honest and accurate in your guidance.
I've been to Banff Canada a number of times, and always thought I'd love to retire there, but alas that can't happen, so I am seeking places in the lower 48 that are in some ways similar. Two places are up for consideration, Ashland and Couer D'Alene ID. Ashland is late to the game, but I've read some things in threads here I'd like clarification on:
Taxes - some have said since Ashland has so little industry, it relies heavily on residents (taxes the hell out of them) to keep the place as charming as it is (BTW we have not visited yet, waiting to see what we hear here first). I already paid my big taxes to sends my kids through school so not keen on paying for others kids. Are taxes that bad there?
Weather - I lived in Seattle for 4 yrs., but it looks as if AS is in a slightly drier swath of area. How accurate? We are from NC so we appreciate that you can;t have beautiful green around you if no rain, but is it like Seattle or Portland? And for winter, we are fine with some snow (we originated from Chicago so nobody can out-winter us). This is the biggest factor against CDA Idaho (we're resigned that if we go there we'll have to become snowbirds).
More sensitive stuff - I'm reading that nearby Medford is called "Methford" and that Ashland has a pretty aggressive and significant (for its size) homeless population. I have little tolerance for either, especially if I'm shelling out big $$ in taxes. Can I get an accurate read on this situation and is it getting worse, better or staying same. We lived in SF, CA and left just as the homeless pop was blowing up downtown - don;t want to return to that.
And speaking of California - Yes, I know, you hate them and wish they'd keep driving north. Is the impact on housing prices as bad as I read here? Its undeniable its almost 100% CDA ID, and although we have the $$, I don't want to have to settle for a tiny sh*tbox of a house just to live anywhere (Except maybe the Hamptons or Carmel, but those are out).
Politics - We are relatively conservative. No, not Rush loving, Trump loving right-wingers, and on some issues we're downright Libertarian. That said, will we be shunned or have a difficult time making friends there? Its never been an issue for us before, but again, I read things here that make me wonder if we'll fit in, or of to fit in, we'll need to keep our mouths shut and opinions to ourselves lest we be branded the scarlet red "R"
So in spite of everything I'm asking here which could be interpreted as not good, we are enticed by what we believe Ashland could be to us in retirement and hope much of the above IS NOT true. But if it is, so be it.
So, be nice, don;t hijack the thread with unrelated nonsense, and let the information flow. We greatly appreciate your willingness to help guide strangers from the other coast.
Casey - Thnk you very much for such a well-crafted and sincere assessment. I truly appreciate your time on it. Taking everything into consideration including your responses, I'm afraid Ashland has fallen considerably in the rankings and likely off our list. I'm sure its a fabulous place, if you're aligned with the taxation tendencies, politics, etc., but I'm pretty sure we wouldn't be. We are definitely aren't "woke" enough and we're buying a gun this week since our police services are likely going to be defunded. Pretty sure that's not what the typical Ashlandian is thinking or doing.
Ashland sounds like a great place, but also one that's rather "hypersensitive" to certain variables (fire smoke, transients) and in some cases, uses taxes as a safety net, an approach generally accepted by those who live there. Retirement to me means more than quitting my job. It also means retiring my prior obligation to pour a lot of my money into a community in which I have no kids, and a rather time-limited interest due to my older age. That MIGHT be acceptable if I felt the town and I were somewhat politically aligned, but if I were to be consistently voted down over time and then having to keep opening my wallet wider for things I don't want or think we need? No thanks.
There are clearly things that set Ashland apart from other places that are good, even great. Just not sure there'd be enough to sustain my admiration over the next 25 years.
Last edited by NC_Cpl; 06-09-2020 at 06:25 AM..
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