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Hello, our family of four (two girls, 11 and 9, i.e. 7th and 4th grade respectively) just relocated to South Orange County from Palo Alto (San Francisco Bay Area). I now work in Lake Forest. We decided to keep our best investment - our PA house - and just rented it out to cover our mortgage payments, so no issue there. But we prefer to rent down here for the foreseeable future. In order to save up some money for future grad school for my wife, we want to stay within $3000/month. Obviously, we have to consider a different set of factors than potential home buyers who need to be more cautious. We don't care about HOA dues or Mello Roos. Right now, the two top choices we have before us (and we need to pick quickly since school will start soon) are in a nice part of the Northwood section of Irvine (Brywood, Sierra Vista Middle, Northwood High), and the section of Ladera Ranch feeding into Chaparral, LR Middle, Tesoro High. We are also considering Woodbridge and Quail Hill in Irvine.
Schools are at the top of our minds, of course. On the other hand, we would like our kids to face a little less stress & pressure than they did in Palo Alto. I went to Harvard for my undergrad, which seems to be everyone's scapegoat and/or secret goal; but I learned first-hand that Ivy League success and status does not necessarily equate to happiness or mental stability. (Plus, Cambridge/Boston winters are absolutely miserable and gloomy. Trust me. It can really suck.) Anyway, I digress. I want my girls to be successful, but also somewhat "normal," especially since they are very social and have non-academic talents that should be nurtured, like drama, music, dancing, swimming and figure skating. Oh, and that thing called playing. Making your child skip childhood is unforgivable in my mind, and in the long run is probably quite unhealthy.
Let's take Option A: Irvine, Northwood - academically intense high school, but how is the learning ENVIRONMENT? And the teaching? Is there collaboration and support? Are the teachers inspiring or do they just dump hours of homework on the kids and expect parents to cover the curriculum (which has happened in Palo Alto too)?
Irvine has schools that, at least on paper, appear to be comparable in performance to Palo Alto's. However, we have the impression that Irvine is more "score-oriented" in its approach to public education, i.e. more emphasis may be placed on standardized testing. Is this a fair assessment or am I off-base? I am also shocked to see the large class sizes and low per-pupil spending in IUSD (and surrounding districts like Capo and SV). I guess the budget cuts and overcrowding have really taken a toll in Orange County.
Finally, I noticed from statistics, from walking and driving around neighborhoods, and from speaking to potential landlords/landladies and others that in Irvine, there is a high percentage of Asian residents, and a high % of them are recent immigrants or first-generation. Now please don't be offended, but I have to be frank and say that this concerns me for two reasons.
(1) Although I lived in this country since I was three, I did go back to my native India for four years as a teen. I grew up living in fear that if I ever came home with anything less than an A grade or even 100%, my father would be disappointed. So I know that some of the stereotypes regarding cultural attitudes of East and South Asian immigrants are true for a high % of that population. I have also sadly observed situations where kids who were literally best friends in elementary school suddenly became bitter, jealous rivals in middle and high school, simply because one set of parents were (for example) Chinese and the other Indian. What does that do to a community? That just shouldn't happen.
(2) My wife met an Asian gentleman who immigrated here from a country that will remain unnamed. In any case, he frightened her by saying right off the bat that (a) he doesn't mix with Americans, and (b) he doesn't have to care because there were plenty of his kind around and in positions of power in Irvine city government. Good-bye. In certain neighborhoods, we have even gotten glares from neighbors who were of non-Indian, Asian descent. Will we even be welcome in Irvine, or will we always be seen as "the competition?" The flip side of this is, Irvine is the BEST with respect to cultural diversity in grocery shopping, restaurants, etc. Korean, Chinese, Persian, Japanese, Indian, Greek - the list goes on and on. We have fallen in love with BCD Tofu and H Mart in Diamond Plaza on Jamboree. 24-hour Korean ribs? Wow!!! Heaven!
Option B: Ladera Ranch, Tesoro High - great overall combination of elementary, middle, and high schools in Capistrano Unified ON PAPER - but again, how do you judge? How does the environment compare to Irvine?
This community has fewer Asians and more Caucasians. Okay. Maybe that explains the slightly lower APIs and test scores, due to cultural attitudes towards testing. But how do the teaching and learning environment compare? Are people/kids friendlier and more welcoming here, less, or pretty much the same? Tesoro High School zone includes very wealthy areas. However, it appears that unlike Palo Alto (current home of Steve Jobs of Apple, Steve Young of the 49ers, at least one Google founder, VMware founder, etc. etc. etc.), where all of the above do or have sent their kids to the public schools and are heavily involved in funding and supporting the public schools in other ways, affluent families in OC appear to lean towards private school. Still, a subset must attend the public schools. What does that mean for the schools? Flashiness? Sports cars and high fashion? Image? Does money rule over brains? Does the Ladera Ranch Middle School volunteer service program have the desired effect of instilling a sense of social justice and civic virtue in feisty middle schoolers?
Difficult questions. Controversial issues. Short deadlines. HELP!!!!!
Let's take Option A: Irvine, Northwood - academically intense high school,
how is the learning ENVIRONMENT?
And the teaching?
Is there collaboration and support?
Are the teachers inspiring or do they just dump hours of homework on the kids and expect parents to cover the curriculum (which has happened in Palo Alto too)?
Irvine is more "score-oriented" in its approach to public education, i.e. more emphasis may be placed on standardized testing. Is this a fair assessment or am I off-base?
kids who were literally best friends in elementary school suddenly became bitter, jealous rivals in middle and high school, simply because one set of parents were (for example) Chinese and the other Indian. What does that do to a community?
Will we even be welcome in Irvine, or will we always be seen as "the competition?"
Option B: Ladera Ranch, Tesoro High -
how do you judge?
How does the environment compare to Irvine?
But how do the teaching and learning environment compare?
Are people/kids friendlier and more welcoming here, less, or pretty much the same?
Tesoro High School zone includes very wealthy areas....a subset must attend the public schools.
What does that mean for the schools?
Flashiness?
Sports cars and high fashion? Image?
Does money rule over brains?
Does the Ladera Ranch Middle School volunteer service program have the desired effect of instilling a sense of social justice and civic virtue in feisty middle schoolers?
Tough to provide objective answers unless someone has lived and experienced the schools in both areas. Even then, there are big differences between schools in a district and even teachers/classes within a school.
Not sure how to conclude whether one district is more "score oriented" or not? Is the aggregate district score higher because there are more smart kids, OR does the district "teach the test" more than other districts? How can someone tell?
Greatschools has parent reviews which can be helpful.
Wealthier schools probably have flashier kids/cars/clothes, shouldn't be a surprise.
As far as social consciousness and efforts to instill it, you might want to visit the schools' PTAs and ask questions. What do they emphasize? Are there social and civic clubs like Boy Scouts?
Finally, because I don't think there are any easy answers to your questions, you might just have to take the old fashioned, conventional advice and visit the schools and get a feel for the environment. Does it seem clean? Are kids polite and engaged? Are the parents friendly? Does the staff seem friendly and not stressed out? Does it appear the community and neighborhood cares about the school (clean, landscaped, flyers announcing activities, etc.) Do the kids wear school shirts and show pride for their school?
Yes, true, thank you. Even though I know all of the things you describe, when you're under pressure and in the midst of making what seem in the moment as life-or-death decisions, you tend not to think rationally. But finally, having consumed who knows how many gigabytes of information from the internet on statistics and reviews, we did have a chance to speak to real, live parents, kids, librarians, and district office personnel yesterday and today. Life is returning to the school campuses. And we have made our decision. We were fortunate enough to have our applications to both properties accepted over multiple other offers. Having a choice is a blessing in itself. Ladera Ranch it is - for now! Aquatic park, here I come - er, I mean my kids. Too bad we only have one more month.
I have lived in Ladera Ranch for 9 years and absolutely love it. My kids are following the same school path that you mentioned, Chaparral, LR Middle and Tesoro. I currently have one child at the middle school and one entering Tesoro. We have had a great experience at both Chaparral and LR Middle. They have high expectations academically but both schools have many activities to engage the kids also. Ladera Ranch is very family friendly and is one of the things I love best about the area. One thing you should be aware of if you aren't already is that the middle school splits when entering high school. Approximately 1/3 of Ladera is zoned for Tesoro High School and 2/3 to San Juan Hills High School. Many are choosing to send their kids to San Juan Hills even if they are in the Tesoro area. It is mostly due to friends and easier to get on sports teams. It was not an option for us. I am not comfortable with some of the environmental issues at the school. It can be tough for kids who do not want to split from their friends. I have heard mostly good about Tesoro. The only negative thing I have heard is that the wealth can be intimidating to some kids and parents. I don't think that will be an issue for us. I think you have made a wise choice in Ladera vs. Irvine. Although Irvine is beautiful and schools are great I think Ladera is much more family friendly. You are going to love the events the city puts on. I have friends in Irvine and their one complaint is that kids do not play outside after school or socialize much with neighbors. They are usually busy with violin, Kumon or homework.
OC Newcomer -- How do you like Ladera Ranch? Our family of 4 has been living in Irvine for almost 4 yrs (relocated from the East Coast) and ready to move out. Difficult to make friends here and -- true -- children hardly come out to play. Ladera Ranch has been on our consideration list due to the family friendly way of life. Would appreciate your input. Thanks.
I have also sadly observed situations where kids who were literally best friends in elementary school suddenly became bitter, jealous rivals in middle and high school, simply because one set of parents were (for example) Chinese and the other Indian. What does that do to a community? That just shouldn't happen.
( Will we even be welcome in Irvine, or will we always be seen as "the competition?"
!!!
Even if you people are "the competition", how does that reduce the quality of life for those Asians? Why should they get so jealous and bitter? If they already live in a nice, affluent educated city like Irvine, then why should they behave in such a negative way?
I think balance is important in life. Certain communities do not place importance on balance in life. It is almost as if they expect you to spend every minute in your bedroom or library studying while ignoring other important parts of life. After you have sacrificed so much to get your educational degree, you can not even get a job because your job was outsourced to India or China. Ironic, isn't it?
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Good choice
