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My, my... how carefully you worded that. At first glance, according to what you provided, OKC seems to be MUCH better than it is. Too bad you left out some glaring details:
The Phoenix festival is a two-day event. The OKC Block Party is one evening. The "festival" you mentioned in OKC has some very ambiguous details about that week. On their website they list specifics for June 19, 20 and 21 only. What happens on the other days that make up the "Pride festival"?
Phoenix Pride has designated 10 days of Pride... which is actually in the link you posted. Oops. No wonder you manipulated the details! Most people won't look for themselves, so you shift numbers to make OKC look a bit better. Starting tomorrow, events pick up, beginning with the Greater Phoenix Gay and Lesbian Chamber of Commerce (a kind of organization OKC doesn't have due to the small market) is hosting a celebration. The actual main festival isn't until next weekend. If you pick up any of the LGBT publications in this city, you would find there are many other events happening.
You listed statistics for the OKC parade, and very conveniently marked it in bold. How... contrived. No statistics you could post on the "week-long festival" though. That OKC Block Party cannot accommodate that many people. I went last year, and there was absolutely no way there were over 30,000 attendees. That area is entirely too small, whereas Phoenix Pride is at a large park that can handle much more than that. That link about OKC Pride you posted also says 70,000 attended... though Houston reported slightly over that and Dallas reported fewer. Hmm... nothing fishy about that, is there? Why don't you crawl out of your trailer on June 19, go to the festival and post some pictures here to prove how "large" OKC Pride is?
But at least you let all the other arguments go, since you focused on this one... even though you tried to manipulate data (quite erroneously too).
I mentioned it because you did. I mentioned the two day number for Phoenix at 35000 because that is what it was associated with. I mentioned the 70,000 number associated with 7 days in OKC and further mentioned that another link said the parade had 30000 attending. If you want to dispute the OKC numbers then fine with me.
Gay Pride, much like coffee, is not my thing. But thanks for the insult and the suggestion.
With that being said, Phoenix is a much more transient population than OKC so that should suit you better. More people from different places than we have. Probably more ethnic restaurants and such. In reality though, Phoenix is another town that many say doesn't measure up. An underperforming downtown, tons of sprawl, and has a right wing reputation that would make even Oklahoma City cringe.
You can do better. Maybe San Fran, or Seattle or NYC. You know a "real" city. That's where you belong.
Last edited by eddie gein; 04-05-2015 at 06:57 PM..
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddie gein
I mentioned it because you did. I mentioned the two day number for Phoenix at 35000 because that is what it was associated with. I mentioned the 70,000 number associated with 7 days in OKC and further mentioned that another link said the parade had 30000 attending. If you want to dispute the OKC numbers then fine with me.
Gay Pride, much like coffee, is not my thing. But thanks for the insult and the suggestion.
With that being said, Phoenix is a much more transient population than OKC so that should suit you better. More people from different places than we have. Probably more ethnic restaurants and such. In reality though, Phoenix is another town that many say doesn't measure up. An underperforming downtown, tons of sprawl, and has a right wing reputation that would make even Oklahoma City cringe.
You can do better. Maybe San Fran, or Seattle or NYC. You know a "real" city. That's where you belong.
Actually, you mentioned very skewed details. And yes, the make up of this city is much more diverse, which means people aren't as hostile to transplants as Okies are. No probably about it, there are many, many more ethnic restaurants in both number and variety. There's much more in terms of entertainment. Downtown needs improvement, but it's growing more organically than OKC. Leaders there try to force development and rip off what other cities do (like those fake canals "borrowed" from San Antonio and your upcoming streetcar to nowhere just to say you have one), but prices in downtown Phoenix are much more reasonable and private development is happening when the city puts investments in it, like parks, public transit, an expanded convention center, a university branch, etc. Also, think before you write:
Though Phoenix is more conservative than most cities, OKC is much more conservative. You should see the cringing people do here with some of the news you guys have been making the past few months . I am thankful that I don't have your lack of foresight too. I came here in part because it was one of the easier cities, and it's more connected economically to the rest of the country. In other words, if I choose to move in a few years it'll be much easier to relocate from here than it would OKC because of several reasons, including how insular OKC is and the negative association with it. In my field, this is what you have to do to move up.
Actually, you mentioned very skewed details. And yes, the make up of this city is much more diverse, which means people aren't as hostile to transplants as Okies are. No probably about it, there are many, many more ethnic restaurants in both number and variety. There's much more in terms of entertainment. Downtown needs improvement, but it's growing more organically than OKC. Leaders there try to force development and rip off what other cities do (like those fake canals "borrowed" from San Antonio and your upcoming streetcar to nowhere just to say you have one), but prices in downtown Phoenix are much more reasonable and private development is happening when the city puts investments in it, like parks, public transit, an expanded convention center, a university branch, etc. Also, think before you write:
Though Phoenix is more conservative than most cities, OKC is much more conservative. You should see the cringing people do here with some of the news you guys have been making the past few months . I am thankful that I don't have your lack of foresight too. I came here in part because it was one of the easier cities, and it's more connected economically to the rest of the country. In other words, if I choose to move in a few years it'll be much easier to relocate from here than it would OKC because of several reasons, including how insular OKC is and the negative association with it. In my field, this is what you have to do to move up.
As somebody who agrees with everything you say and who dislikes OKC about as much as you do, when/if I ever get out, I will have nothing to do with this place anymore. I also doubt I will go back to forums posting about how terrible it is either. I cannot wait for the day I can move and get on with my life and I congratulate you for making it happen. Phoenix is a great city. When my day of freedom comes I will move on with my life and not look back on these miserable years.
With that being said, Phoenix is a much more transient population than OKC so that should suit you better. More people from different places than we have. Probably more ethnic restaurants and such. In reality though, Phoenix is another town that many say doesn't measure up. An underperforming downtown, tons of sprawl, and has a right wing reputation that would make even Oklahoma City cringe.
You can do better. Maybe San Fran, or Seattle or NYC. You know a "real" city. That's where you belong.
Phoenix and OKC do share some similarities. Both don't quite measure up to other cities in their population ranges. Both are very sprawled and even have similar grid layouts. Both are among the few Republican major cities in the US (I said Republican, not conservative for reasons I will explain below). However, I would jump at the chance to live in Phoenix over OKC for numerous reasons. In fact I can't think of a single reason I would choose OKC if given the choice of those two cities.
First, Phoenix is large enough that there isn't a whole lot that it doesn't have. While you may not have the kind of vibrant, urban districts downtown you would expect in a metro area of 5 million people, there are entertainment districts even in the suburbs like Scottsdale that completely blow away everything in OKC and Tulsa combined. Downtown Phoenix, though underperforming for its size, is still ahead of OKC. The transient aspect is a huge deal. Phoenix is a much, much easier place for a non-native to get plugged in and feel at home. In OKC one pretty much has to be a native Okie or an Okie at heart to feel like they belong. A lot of people here wont make any effort to include people in their social circles who they haven't known their entire lives. That is typical in small towns but its unusual for a large town like OKC to be so insular. In Phoenix there also isn't near as much of a culture of conformism.
Secondly, Phoenix leans Republican but its the John McCain/Barry Goldwater brand of Republicanism, which is a night and day difference from the typical OKC Jerry Falwell/Mike Huckabee Republican. Phoenix has a fairly low rate of church attendance so the politics their politics doesn't have the extreme religious dogma that Oklahoma politics does. To somebody who has lived in OKC their entire life, Phoenix would feel like a liberal city even on the grand scheme of things it isn't.
Lastly, central Arizona is a very beautiful, scenic place. The climate is awesome as well. Though it's exceedingly hot three months out of the year, the other nine months are very pleasant and perfect for getting out and living an active life. To top it off, you don't have to deal with the eight week Hell on Earth that is Oklahoma tornado season. I would take 120 degrees for three months straight over the severe weather here.
So yeah, I definitely envy him for getting the opportunity to relocate to Phoenix. While it may not be NYC or San Fran and has its own problems, it would be a dream come true compared to here.
Secondly, Phoenix leans Republican but its the John McCain/Barry Goldwater brand of Republicanism, which is a night and day difference from the typical OKC Jerry Falwell/Mike Huckabee Republican. Phoenix has a fairly low rate of church attendance so the politics their politics doesn't have the extreme religious dogma that Oklahoma politics does. To somebody who has lived in OKC their entire life, Phoenix would feel like a liberal city even on the grand scheme of things it isn't.
I agree completely and hey!-- I've even lived in Phoenix (and Tuscon and Cottonwood) so I have some reason for agreeing with you.
Yeah, it isn't many states that have as completely bat-guano wackadoo legislators as Oklahoma. Fallin, Inhoffe, Sally Kern. Yee-ikes.
Quote:
Lastly, central Arizona is a very beautiful, scenic place. The climate is awesome as well. Though it's exceedingly hot three months out of the year, the other nine months are very pleasant and perfect for getting out and living an active life. To top it off, you don't have to deal with the eight week Hell on Earth that is Oklahoma tornado season. I would take 120 degrees for three months straight over the severe weather here.
So yeah, I definitely envy him for getting the opportunity to relocate to Phoenix. While it may not be NYC or San Fran and has its own problems, it would be a dream come true compared to here.
More or less agree here as well. Of all the states in which I've lived, I like Arizona and Oregon the best. Were I to return to Oregon, it would be somewhere rural and not Portland. We are considering a possible move to NM or AZ in the future.
But I want to say--I am an Okie. I do not hate Oklahoma, and in fact there is a great deal I love about it, and many things (IMO) to recommend it. And (also IMO) Oklahoma does have a lot of natural beauty, and quite an array of it.
Just not OKC specifically.
There's really not much I can think of to try and sell someone on OKC for any reason.
I don't understand what the flap is about. If one follows I-44 from Joplin, MO to I-40 and thence to Shamrock, TX., one sees ta small version of the whole of Oklahoma. The eastern half begins with an extension of the 50,000 acre Ozark Mountain Range It is heavily forested from Miami south to I-40. It is where you find the waters to canoe and raft without being interrupted by large ocean going vessels and power boat races. The hills are high and the valleys are deep. The smaller enclaves are blessed with a wide variety of wildlife from snake and turtle to pelican and wild turkey - most of which visit your yard with the deer, rabbit and squirrel.
Tulsa to OKC is a two hour drive. Both of the cities are near or exceed a 1,000,000 population. About halfway to OKC the land begins to level, the forests are not nearly as obvious, and the valleys disappear. West of OKC looks different. Pumpjacks may or may not be working, the land becomes red earth. Two hours later you begin to notice you are approaching the entrance to what was at one time the wild, wild west. The mountains rise tall as the road rises to meet it. Very soon you are in Shamrock Texas.
I like Tulsa. I was raised in the Midwest among large bodies of water, heavily forested areas with large parks and smaller colleges. NEOK looks very much like the high cliffs and rolling hills in the Midwest which are interrupted by thousands of acres of crop, and county roads.
As somebody who agrees with everything you say and who dislikes OKC about as much as you do, when/if I ever get out, I will have nothing to do with this place anymore. I also doubt I will go back to forums posting about how terrible it is either. I cannot wait for the day I can move and get on with my life and I congratulate you for making it happen. Phoenix is a great city. When my day of freedom comes I will move on with my life and not look back on these miserable years.
I just don't understand why you made up a new profile? I see your still using bchris02 on other parts of CD.
Actually, you mentioned very skewed details. And yes, the make up of this city is much more diverse, which means people aren't as hostile to transplants as Okies are. No probably about it, there are many, many more ethnic restaurants in both number and variety. There's much more in terms of entertainment. Downtown needs improvement, but it's growing more organically than OKC. Leaders there try to force development and rip off what other cities do (like those fake canals "borrowed" from San Antonio and your upcoming streetcar to nowhere just to say you have one), but prices in downtown Phoenix are much more reasonable and private development is happening when the city puts investments in it, like parks, public transit, an expanded convention center, a university branch, etc. Also, think before you write:
Though Phoenix is more conservative than most cities, OKC is much more conservative. You should see the cringing people do here with some of the news you guys have been making the past few months . I am thankful that I don't have your lack of foresight too. I came here in part because it was one of the easier cities, and it's more connected economically to the rest of the country. In other words, if I choose to move in a few years it'll be much easier to relocate from here than it would OKC because of several reasons, including how insular OKC is and the negative association with it. In my field, this is what you have to do to move up.
Thought I'd revisit another of your arrogant posts cuz I know you are reading this thread despite your new playground.
First, I've lived in Phoenix (Scottsdale) and in Arizona for 8 years although most of that was in Tucson. Graduated from the University of Arizona. There is no doubt that Phoenix has more going for it than OKC. This isn't about comparing the two places. Phoenix is better.
And I won't argue with most of what you say other than to say that most of Phoenix growth is from Midwesterners. What do they say. Phoenix is Chicago's biggest suburb.
As far as politics though. If you want to pat yourself on the back because Phoenix has had politicians like Jan Brewer, Jeff Flake and JD Hayward and Sheriff Joe then be my guest. Then you've got that nutcase preacher out there who "prays" that somebody will assassinate the president. Think about the fact that Arizona was the LAST state in the union to have the official MLK holiday approved mostly due to voters in Phoenix.
But again it is your bashing of OKC that is irritating. OKC built the canal because they had a river close to downtown. It made sense. And you want to diss OKC for developing a streetcar?? OK.
It's funny. OKC has things but they aren't good enough to suit you. OKC has a representable gay pride week but it's not good enough for 'ole dvx. You'd think if OKC was as bad as you say, then OKC would have a gay BASHING parade. OKC has a thousand restaurants and some of them are ethnic. But not enough of them are ethnic to suit you. OKC has all kinds of festivals but they aren't "big enough" to suit you.
Thirty years ago some called Tulsa the art capital, and some called it the 'queen' city. I don't know if that is accurate today or not. But, to its credit Tulsa continues to be a leafy verdant city that is visually appealing as one drives through the city from the Missouri border toward Oklahoma City.
OKC's steel and glass didn't appeal to me. But to be fair, I only saw it through a windshield while driving down I-40..
Thirty years ago some called Tulsa the art capital, and some called it the 'queen' city. I don't know if that is accurate today or not. But, to its credit Tulsa continues to be a leafy verdant city that is visually appealing as one drives through the city from the Missouri border toward Oklahoma City.
OKC's steel and glass didn't appeal to me. But to be fair, I only saw it through a windshield while driving down I-40..
Tulsa is a visually appealing city. There are parts of it that could be mistaken for Dallas. On the other side of that, Tulsa has some of the ugliest suburbs I've seen anywhere.
You are right that Tulsa having long been the state's cultural capital. It is still the arts and music capital of the state. Though it is a smaller city, it has always had a more "big city" feel due to its increased population density and a more educated, white collar economy. I think Oklahoma City is starting to catch up to Tulsa in a lot of ways and the disparity isn't as big as it once was, but Tulsa still comes out ahead.
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. I am thankful that I don't have your lack of foresight too. I came here in part because it was one of the easier cities, and it's more connected economically to the rest of the country. In other words, if I choose to move in a few years it'll be much easier to relocate from here than it would OKC because of several reasons, including how insular OKC is and the negative association with it. In my field, this is what you have to do to move up.
