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I have responded to many of your posts with links and facts but you fail to address them because they don’t fit your narrative. I am allowed to hold the opinion that Ohio is not well off compared to some of its neighbors and even provided facts as well.
Throughout this debate you have continued to name call me and not once have I name Called you. Using logical fallacy is not the best argument style, which is your style as evidenced by your posts.
The minute someone disagrees with you, you belittle, name call and disregard their facts and links posted.
I have responded to many of your posts with links and facts but you fail to address them because they don’t fit your narrative. I am allowed to hold the opinion that Ohio is not well off compared to some of its neighbors and even provided facts as well.
Throughout this debate you have continued to name call me and not once have I name Called you. Using logical fallacy is not the best argument style, which is your style as evidenced by your posts.
The minute someone disagrees with you, you belittle, name call and disregard their facts and links posted.
Once you called Cleveland a cesspool, and posited Ohio Republicans as less corrupt than Ohio urban Democrats, you earned all of the scorn and negative assessments that I've heaped on you.
What I especially don't understand is why, as a self-proclaimed objective person, you are so tolerant of the blatant Republican corruption in Ohio. Please explain. The Republican corruption dwarfs any Democratic corruption that you've cited, or of which I'm aware.
As I've said, I will get to each of your links and false assertions. It will take many, many hours to do the job right.
As noted in post 90, you did not post any links to support your claim that Tennesse and Indiana were superior to Ohio. Why do you make things up?
BTW, there are many posters in the Ohio forum with whom I've disagreed, but never felt compelled to call their opinions ignorant.
Doesn't this definition of ignorant apply to your assertions that I've cited in this post?
<<lacking knowledge, information, or awareness about a particular thing.>>
"Ignorant" certainly applies to anybody who calls Cleveland a "cesspool," regardless if they continue to argue it's true. And, yes, such a libelous claim is obviously Trumpian, whether you voted for him or not.
Because the rust belt cities are dying and so they constitute lower percentage of the votes. When most Ohio state grads with STEM degrees want to work in Boston, Seattle, or San Francisco, then You expect to see Ohio lean more red.
Texas will flip blue before Ohio does, thanks to the high surge in Asian immigrate who overwhelmingly vote blue and live in suburban swing districts.
Do they want to? Or is it just their best option?
I know a number of people in both camps. I have high school classmates from Toledo who simply aspire to live in warmer weather or in a big city like LA, Philly, or Chicago (strangely, I know nobody who went to NYC). But I also have classmates who would prefer to be here in Ohio, but have left for career reasons.
Another thing I've noticed is that the people who never left Ohio, college educated or not, seem to have a stunted career path. It seems that the people who left for 5, 10, 15 years before returning are able to command higher pay and higher positions than those who remained in Ohio the entire time. Maybe there's some correlation with the people who left and returned being more "ambitious", but I think it's also related to the limited opportunities in Ohio.
This is probably exaggerated in the medium sized metros like Toledo. It's harder to get big time experience in a metro with no major bank, only one significant health system, no big name university, and only a handful of Fortune 500 companies.
I'm still sick that my state voted for the con man. Keep sending him
money so he can try and bail out his failed resorts. He's a con man and
will always be one and you are being conned.
I'm still sick that my state voted for the con man. Keep sending him
money so he can try and bail out his failed resorts. He's a con man and
will always be one and you are being conned.
He's also a Russian asset who just let them get away with the biggest cyber attack in our nation's history, but the comforting thing is he'll be gone in a month. But people who are less educated and were never taught to distinguish verifiable resources and evidence from made-up **** are going to be easily conned, and that's what has caused Ohio to trend downward.
The good people of Ohio......didn’t cheat in the election.
Neither did the good people of Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, Georgia, and Arizona, "cheat" despite the unrelenting "Big Lie" propaganda of Trump, his Republican enablers (including several Ohio Congresspersons), Newsmax, etc. Factually, Ohio's elections are rigged, but in favor of Republicans.
In Ohio, the Republican Secretary of State Frank LaRose decisively rigged the election against Biden by limiting the number of drop-off ballot locations in more heavily populated counities. So Democratic Cuyahoga County had one, relatively poorly located ballot drop-off location for its population of 1.235 million and 457 square miles, compared to one central location in Republican Lake County, adjacent to Cuyahoga County, for its population of 230,000 and 227 square miles, the lowest of any Ohio county.
Similarly, the Ohio Republican legislature refuses to expand the number of early voting locations AND early voting hours in any county. The early voting lines in Cuyahoga County were hours long, where often in Lake County there was no wait.
LaRose had the legal authority to allow counties to establish multiple absentee ballot drop-off locations but declined to do so, falsely claiming it was unfair for one county to have more locations than another county, even if the first county had a much greater population or much greater geological area. Limited early voting hours also hampered voting by the working poor.
LaRose now supports Ohio legislative efforts to expand the early voting locations per county. A sensible regulation would allow county board of elections to have multiple locations, widely dispersed both for early voting and ballot drop-offs. The number of locations could be limited by population AND geographical size. E.g., if Lake County is limited to one early voting/ballot drop-off location (three would make most sense for Lake County -- west, central, east), certainly Cuyahoga should be allowed at least five locations, proportionate to its greater population.
<<"One of the key reasons why you didn’t see crowds and wait times on Election Day was early voting," LaRose said. Still, he thinks more could be done to encourage Ohioans to vote early.
He wants the legislature to legalize online requests for absentee ballots before the General Assembly goes home for Christmas, and he plans to push for legislation that would let counties have more than one, in-person location for early voting when lawmakers return in January 2021. >>
Voter turnout in Cuyahoga County was 69 percent compared to 75 to over 80 percent in many Republican counties. Republicans successfully suppressed the vote in poor, heavily African American precincts in Cleveland and East Cleveland.
Clearly, in Ohio, it's Republicans who rig the elections and make voting more difficult for poor, urban voters. Then the Republican gerrymander in Ohio further dilutes the voting influence of Ohio's poor and typically African American voters. It's highly unlikely that Ohio's Republican legislatures will allow counties to increase the number of early voting locations, nor will LaRose expand the number of absentee ballot drop-off locations even if it's in his power to do so.
Neither did the good people of Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, Georgia, and Arizona, "cheat" despite the unrelenting "Big Lie" propaganda of Trump, his Republican enablers (including several Ohio Congresspersons), Newsmax, etc. Factually, Ohio's elections are rigged, but in favor of Republicans.
In Ohio, the Republican Secretary of State Frank LaRose decisively rigged the election against Biden by limiting the number of drop-off ballot locations in more heavily populated counities. So Democratic Cuyahoga County had one, relatively poorly located ballot drop-off location for its population of 1.235 million and 457 square miles, compared to one central location in Republican Lake County, adjacent to Cuyahoga County, for its population of 230,000 and 227 square miles, the lowest of any Ohio county.
Similarly, the Ohio Republican legislature refuses to expand the number of early voting locations AND early voting hours in any county. The early voting lines in Cuyahoga County were hours long, where often in Lake County there was no wait.
LaRose had the legal authority to allow counties to establish multiple absentee ballot drop-off locations but declined to do so, falsely claiming it was unfair for one county to have more locations than another county, even if the first county had a much greater population or much greater geological area. Limited early voting hours also hampered voting by the working poor.
LaRose now supports Ohio legislative efforts to expand the early voting locations per county. A sensible regulation would allow county board of elections to have multiple locations, widely dispersed both for early voting and ballot drop-offs. The number of locations could be limited by population AND geographical size. E.g., if Lake County is limited to one early voting/ballot drop-off location (three would make most sense for Lake County -- west, central, east), certainly Cuyahoga should be allowed at least five locations, proportionate to its greater population.
<<"One of the key reasons why you didn’t see crowds and wait times on Election Day was early voting," LaRose said. Still, he thinks more could be done to encourage Ohioans to vote early.
He wants the legislature to legalize online requests for absentee ballots before the General Assembly goes home for Christmas, and he plans to push for legislation that would let counties have more than one, in-person location for early voting when lawmakers return in January 2021. >>
Voter turnout in Cuyahoga County was 69 percent compared to 75 to over 80 percent in many Republican counties. Republicans successfully suppressed the vote in poor, heavily African American precincts in Cleveland and East Cleveland.
Clearly, in Ohio, it's Republicans who rig the elections and make voting more difficult for poor, urban voters. Then the Republican gerrymander in Ohio further dilutes the voting influence of Ohio's poor and typically African American voters. It's highly unlikely that Ohio's Republican legislatures will allow counties to increase the number of early voting locations, nor will LaRose expand the number of absentee ballot drop-off locations even if it's in his power to do so.
I have to disagree with your last two paragraphs. There are many ways to vote along with extending deadlines. People who wanted to vote had no excuse not to. The opportunity and resources were there for everyone.
I firmly believe we should make election day a paid holiday. Making election day a holiday would place significance on voting and teach the importance of voting to young children growing up. Regardless of party affiliation.
I have to disagree with your last two paragraphs. There are many ways to vote along with extending deadlines. People who wanted to vote had no excuse not to. The opportunity and resources were there for everyone.
I firmly believe we should make election day a paid holiday. Making election day a holiday would place significance on voting and teach the importance of voting to young children growing up. Regardless of party affiliation.
So persons in poverty, who don't own cars and for whom even postage and time spent voting is a much more meaningfuly expenditure of precious resources, should not have casting a ballot made as easy as possible???
Let's take away your car, your house, all of your savings, put you in a condition of housing and food insecurity, and wipe out precincts closest to your house and have only early voting in inconvenient locations several miles away. Then perhaps you will understand why Ohio Republicans are successful in denying voter access.
Do you deny that Ohio Republicans take every chance to making voting more difficult than is necessary for safe election? Why do you oppose allowing Cuyahoga County residents having equal access to early voting as residents in Lake County, let alone many rural Ohio counties with relatively very small populations??? Why shouldn't early voting hours on several days be changed to 2 p.m. to 10 p.m. to better accommodate working voters? Laketran in Lake County even offered free door-to-door transportation for those wanting to vote.
<<Take the city of Cleveland, for instance. In 2012, about 58 percent of the city’s voting-age population cast ballots. This year, if all provisional and outstanding absentee ballots are counted, that number will be 50 percent.>>
East Cleveland voter turnout was only 46 percent of registered voters.
<<However, suburbs throughout the county did see record voter turnout numbers that were above 80%, including Bay Village and Independence. Cuyahoga County Board of Elections Director, Tony Perlatti, says it was Cleveland with 53% and East Cleveland with 46% turnout that brought down the county’s average voter participation numbers.>>
If the U.S. did away with the electoral college and elected the President by popular vote, and had Congressional representation actually reflect the will of the people, our political fortunes would be much improved. E.g., here is the population per million residents per Senator for selected states: California (19.5); Ohio (5.8); Delaware (487 thousand); and Wyoming (289 thousand).
The Republican-nominated majority of Supreme Court Justices ruled in 2016 that extreme, partisan gerrymandering is Constitutional.
Even when Trump clearly lost the Presidency in an honest election, Republicans in Ohio (including several Ohio Congresspersons such as Jim Jordan) are promoting a Constitutional coup d'etat to overturn the decisive victory by Joe Biden.
The Republican stink in suppressing the will of the people has become extremely odorous IMO, especially in Ohio. And I'm no fan of the Democrats, who don't make a political issue of this especially important issue.
Just as the Republican Party rose in the 1850s largely over the issue of slavery, we likely need a new political party willing to go to the mat to correct the mounting flaws in our Constitutional system, before someone like Trump (whether a representative of the 1 percent or an anti-capitalist populist akin to Venezuela's Huga Chavez) succeeds in replacing our republic with an autocratic regime, with disastrous consequences.
How did Biden not win Ohio? I skimmed through most of the thread but if the question is how did Biden fail to carry the state, while Obama did twice, I would offer the following:
- "Rust belt" places in the Northeast - Mahoning Valley, blue-collar Cleveland suburbs, Lorain County, etc. - Despite these places being historical Democratic strongholds, Trump had more appeal than past Republicans due to his perceived "understanding" of trade issues, willingness to "talk tough" and stir things up. Democrats got especially strong vote margins out of these places in 2008 and 2012 due to Republicans being blamed for the crashing economy in 2008, and Romney (painted as a out-of-touch and unconcerned plutocrat) being a poor fit for the area in 2012. Without winning these areas by comfortable margins, there is no way Obama could have carried the state. The swing towards Trump in 2016 in Lorain, Mahoning, Trumbull, Ashtabula counties, etc., was pretty dramatic, and by 2020 Trump won them all.
- SE Ohio/Appalachia - The Appalachian area of Southeast Ohio is culturally more similar to WV or eastern KY than it is to many other places within OH. Democrats were ancestrally very strong in SE OH, and even though Obama lost nearly all of these counties, he was still taking up to 40-45% of the vote based on historical support and voting patterns. All across Appalachia, people seem to LOVE Trump for whatever reason, and the Democratic support cratered to more like 25-30%. This can be seen not only in Ohio but also in WV and eastern KY, where counties that has supported Democrats for over a hundred years became blood red. What used to be somewhat neutral territory for Democrats in OH is now a huge vote deficit against them.
- Major cities and central/west farm country basically stood still. Franklin (Columbus) and Hamilton (Cincinnati) counties trended towards the Democrats, if anything, but the shift in votes was not anywhere what was needed to overcome the massive deficits above.
I had expected Biden to recover slightly in the Northeast/Rust Belt but that did not happen. So basically, Democrats losing previously safe ground in the Northeast while being annihilated in formerly competitive territory led to Trump winning the state by 8% again, even though Obama had carried it twice in recent memory.
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