What's with the run-down shopping malls? (Arlington, Springfield: sale, real estate, leases)

[expdxer]

I moved to Arlington six months ago and have to admit that I am surprised by the awful shopping malls in this area--the Landmark Mall and even worse, the Springfield Mall, even the little mall near the Ballston Metro seems tired. I live near Pentagon City, which is a very good mall, almost too crowded, but after living in NYC, I am not used to suburban malls that obviously have seen better days. The malls there are all very busy, both high end stores and discount stores. This surprises me since Arlington and NOVA are so affluent. I am well aware that there's a lower-income population here as well and can see that is who these malls cater to. I am a shopper that likes a bargain but find that because I don't have a car, certain stores are just too much of a hassle to get to, like JC Penney, and the malls are not very pleasant once you get there. If anyone can explain why these malls have gone downhill, that would satisfy my curiousity. All I can say is my building's front desk now knows me because I'm doing so much online shopping! p.s. I will eventually take the 1 hr bus ride to Tyson's Corner--is that where everyone goes?

[ChristineVA]

Originally Posted by expdxer

I moved to Arlington six months ago and have to admit that I am surprised by the awful shopping malls in this area--the Landmark Mall and even worse, the Springfield Mall, even the little mall near the Ballston Metro seems tired. I live near Pentagon City, which is a very good mall, almost too crowded, but after living in NYC, I am not used to suburban malls that obviously have seen better days. The malls there are all very busy, both high end stores and discount stores. This surprises me since Arlington and NOVA are so affluent. I am well aware that there's a lower-income population here as well and can see that is who these malls cater to. I am a shopper that likes a bargain but find that because I don't have a car, certain stores are just too much of a hassle to get to, like JC Penney, and the malls are not very pleasant once you get there. If anyone can explain why these malls have gone downhill, that would satisfy my curiousity. All I can say is my building's front desk now knows me because I'm doing so much online shopping! p.s. I will eventually take the 1 hr bus ride to Tyson's Corner--is that where everyone goes?

Yeah, everyone pretty much goes to Tyson's. I can't really tell you why Landmark and Springfield got so rundown. They were both the "bee's knees" in the 70s. I don't know if the mall owners just didn't keep the mall itself updated or they let too many stores in that just didn't meet the needs of consumers but people just decided to go to Tyson's and, to some degree, Fair Oaks. Pentagon City is okay but for some reason I just never care for that mall on the weekend.

One would think that Springfield could really "boom" being so close to the Metro. Just not sure what happened.

[SallyField]

An indoor shopping mall suffering a slow and painful demise is not unique to this area. Contrary to your statement, there are plenty of dying and dead malls in New York, too: deadmalls DOT com: Feature

In fact, this happens everywhere. Back in the glory days of the 80s and 90s, indoor malls were sprouting all over the place and expanding like crazy. Something had to give, and some of the malls died. For Springfield and Landmark, those are not in the wealthy parts of the County, and the local residents cannot keep afloat the type of upscale retail that a mall needs to retain a certain level of business. Once the "higher tier" level of stores is gone, other stores pull out, and many customers, even local ones, go to other malls instead.

There was been some discussion here about both of these dead malls. It seems anachronistic to have them in Northern VA, but it's fairly common throughout the US. Sad, I suppose, but not unusual.

[brooklynborndad]

In the case of Landmark there has been for a while a plan to tear the whole thing down and redevelop the site. That naturally leads the current owner to not do major maintenance, not sign long term leases, etc. However during the real estate crash the plans were put on hold. Not sure the current status.

Springfield also has redevelopment plans, but they dont involve completely tearing down the existing mall.

note not only we do have the malls others have mentioned fair oaks as well as Tyson and pentagon city and ballston - but a fair number of people head down to Potomac Mills for discount shopping, there are the new lifestyle centers (RTC, Clarendon Commons, Pentagon Row, etc) and there are some decent stores in open shopping centers (there was an indie childrens store in Bradlee we used to go to when we lived near there) and even old fashioned urban street shopping, notably in Old Town alex (or one can go into DC - I couple of years ago I needed a traditional mens hat, and I found the best place to get one was in Georgetown)

and of course there is online shopping for many things.

[expdxer]

Originally Posted by SallyField

An indoor shopping mall suffering a slow and painful demise is not unique to this area. Contrary to your statement, there are plenty of dying and dead malls in New York, too: deadmalls DOT com: Feature

True, one of the dead New York malls was the happening place when I was growing up and I am old enough to remember when it was under construction. My perceptions may be due to the fact that there are so many malls in the NYC area and many of them are successful, so it's easy to forget about the down-on-their-luck malls.

[Caladium]

On the news the other day they showed malls around the country that are re-inventing themselves by renting out the vacant stores to cooking schools, little businesses, aquariums, and all sorts of play areas. I remember when we had a thread on Landmark Mall several years ago suggesting the same idea. We were suggesting the escalators be turned into skateboard ramps--in reality someone turned a set of them into slides. Kinda cool to see an idea that once sounded nutty when we tossed it around on city-data actually happening.

[brooklynborndad]

this is the most recent item I could find

Fate of Landmark Mall could soon come into vision - Washington Business Journal

[brooklynborndad]

Originally Posted by SallyField

An indoor shopping mall suffering a slow and painful demise is not unique to this area. Contrary to your statement, there are plenty of dying and dead malls in New York, too: deadmalls DOT com: Feature

you know what was nice to see on that list? Rockville mall. Some of us may remember when THAT was a dead mall. Look at whats there now - a wonderful transformation.

[Carlingtonian]

I think it's a confluence of factors behind the death of malls around here. One is the competition from the outlets; there are so many good ones nearby--Potomac Mills, Leesburg Premium Outlets, Arundel Mills, and even Hagerstown. They claim to offer better deals, and maybe they do. (My wife is a huge fan, but I just find them exhausting and never find their deals that stupendous.) And then there's Marshalls and TJ Maxx and (for another month, anyway) Filene's.

I think another factor is that the stores in the regular malls no longer appeal to a large part of the population. The only mall I'm familiar with here is Ballston Common. It has a Macys (retail prices--no thanks), about 10 cellphone kiosks, a smattering of shops that appeal almost exclusively to teens and people in their 20s (e.g., Fellas Fashions) and bars (Rock Bottom, Union Jacks). We used to go to Waldenbooks; it closed. We used to go to Macaroni Grill; it also closed. We buy pretty much everything at an outlet, on sale at Pottery Barn, or online.

Finally, I wonder if the artificial indoor nature of indoor shopping is something that people no longer like. One would think that protection from the elements would be a big draw--but the outlets prove otherwise, as do the pedestrian malls in places like Boulder and Burlington, VT.

Then again, maybe it's just the malls around here.

[pcity]

Originally Posted by Carlingtonian

Then again, maybe it's just the malls around here.

Actually, I think the rest of your post applies to malls across America just as well. As deadmalls.com shows, NoVA is hardly unique in having aging and unsuccessful malls.

Discount and big-box shopping have killed the traditional shopping mall. The only way to survive is by being a true shopping destination like Pentagon City, Tysons, or Potomac Mills. Malls are expensive to maintain and impractical for quick trips, so they need to become a place people want to spend a whole day in, rather than just an hour or two. If a mall can't do that, it's better off giving up and just becoming a regular shopping center, or converting to mixed-use with offices and housing added to the mix.

Ballston is an interesting case because it's not really a dead mall. The bars and restaurants do very well. The movie theater appears to do well. It's just that no one ever explores the upper levels of shopping. I think a Dave and Buster's would do well on the upper levels there. Other than that, I could see them divying up the rest and putting a big box store or two there.

Then again, most big-box stores have locations in Bailey's, Clarendon, Pentagon City, and/or Tysons already, so Ballston may be too close to their existing stores.