I have never lived or been in a more incompetent State.... (Charlotte: real estate, college)
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Incompetent? Have you ever lived in Florida?
I live in both Florida and NC .
NC is way more competent than this place (needless to say that I am in Florida right now.)
Surprisingly, this (funding for roads/transportation) seems to be an issue where the neighbor to the south tends to do it better. Certainly there are issues (bridge maintenance in particular is a huge issue, but also in NC also), but the SCDOT tends to do an OK job. I was actually surprised that I-77 in York County got widened and resurfaced sooner than I-77 in Mecklenburg.
Man ain't that the truth! York county is widening and re-routing roads like CRAZY! I-77 was just the start of big things to come down in York. SC is dead serious about getting some of Charlotte's growth and they are doing it the right way with roads.
Charlotte was never apart of "NC's plan" and it shows.
The largest US city without a School of Medicine
The largest US city without a completed freeway loop
The largest US city without freeway lights that work
Oh don't get EVEN get me started. I love Charlotte with a passion, but NC holds Charlotte back.
I think a secession is in order. "Charlotte, Carolina" has a nice ring to it don't ya think?
And one more thing, to all you "Dook" and "Crap'el Hell" fans in Charlotte, UNCC is OUR college. Support your real home team for a change.
No matter how many "blue and white" jerseys you go out and buy, those tobacco road teams are NEVER NEVER NEVER moving to Charlotte.
There are only 2 other states that handle road building like NC and it's all controlled by the NC Legislature and Governor. Charlotte has no effective political power in the NC Legislature. You might ask why is this so with it being the largest city in the state. Here is the long abbreviated answer to that question.
It's helpful to understand the history about the roads in NC. This is a rather long history so you might not be interested.
First NC is rather unique in the USA in that it is the state controls all highway construction (with a few exceptions). This goes back to ~1924 when the Legislature took over all road building. County governments are not allowed to build highways and cities can only take care of neighborhood streets.
In the 1920s, NC was a very rural state with major industries that were based on resources in rural areas. i.e Tobacco, Furniture, Cotton Mills. It's also geographically a very large state. It's close to 600 miles across and ranges from islands 30 miles out in the Atlantic to the highest mountains East of the Mississippi River. Despite this geography, it has no rivers than can be used for commerce. The state took over road building to make these areas accessible for these industries.
Charlotte's population in 1920 was ~46K. 2nd largest city in state at the time. The city was basically the administrative and banking center for the the vast area of cotton/textile mills once found in this part of the Carolinas. While textiles were important, it did not lead to much political control because of the next item.
By far, the biggest and most important industry in reconstruction NC has been tobacco. Vast fortunes have been made in this state because of this weed. It's a legal addictive drug and NC has close to a monopoly on the highest quality stuff: flue cured tobacco. It's the reason there is a Duke University, UNC (first public Univ in NC) and many other items in NC the rest of the South did not have. Many tobacco farmers could afford to send their kids to the best universities. Duke Energy has it's roots in tobacco and the big banks in this state would not have existed without this money. The reason this is important here is because Tobacco is a Eastern NC industry. There is almost no tobacco industry in the West. Politics follows money, hence. Politics controlled from Eastern NC.
While the 1920s goals of the Legislature plan did work, North Carolina generally had a better standard of living and better economy than most of the South (which was like a 3rd world then), it also concentrated a lot of economic power in the legislature. It became a way for the Governor to hand out political appointments for his friends and supporters, and of course a way to hand out political re-payments for favors done.
So from the above about politics being based in Eastern NC, it's no wonder why all the road building has been oriented there. There also is a bias towards rural counties given, again, how power has been alloted in the Legislature.
So with this history in mind, why in modern present day NC, doesn't the huge population of Charlotte, Mecklenburg county, and the Metro area give it some edge in controlling the Legislature and hence the agenda of road building priorities of the NCDOT?
Easy answer, partisan politics. Charlotte is a New South city and most residents don't understand the historical difference between the state level political parties and the national level political parties. They are apples and oranges.
I won't get into this history but basically NC is a conservative state which is obvious enough. But what isn't as apparent to non-Southerners is that in rural NC, conservative = Democrat when it comes to state matters. These counties will vote close to 100% Democrat for state offices and this is why the Democrats continue to dominate the Legislature. These are not the Democrats like Obama's Democrats. In this state you will hear the term JessieCrat. i.e. Democrats who would vote for Jessie Helms.
Charlotte's problem is that it's politics are based on the national view of the parties, and hence it always splits the vote and in effect cancels itself out when it comes to state politics. It's the reason that it doesn't get much attention from statewide candidates. Where did Pat McCrory spend most of his time in seeking the governor's seat? In eastern NC hoping to woo the JessieCrats. It's why he announced his candidacy in the rural backwash town he came from rather than from a backdrop of Charlotte.
So bottom line is Politics in NC are Eastern and Rural, State controls all road money, hence cities like Charlotte get short end of stick.
Sadly during the local elections here, we never get into this, and instead focus on items that have nothing to do with gaining political power at the state level. Sure you will hear platitudes from the Mayor and others about cleaning up the politics in Raleigh, but that is nothing but hot air. The Legislature is made up of reps from 100 counties and 99 of them could care less about the Charlotte politicians. Until we start voting on state issues and less about idealogical issues then nothing is going to change.
very informative opinions, particularly about the history of NC. I would like to point out that:
a- Not everywhere in eastern NC gets much road money. I know that Wilmington is not in the best shape, road-wise.
b- Rural areas should get a disproportionate share of transportation money. That's how transportation funding is typically supposed to work. I don't think you can get from Charlotte to Greensboro (or NYC to Chicago) without driving through a rural county.
People here in Wake County (Raleigh) seem to think the exact opposite of the OP -- that they are not getting their fair share of highway funding, and that too much of it is going to Charlotte. We are about to get a much needed highway bypass constructed, but it will be the state's first toll road.
But you guys have had a beltline (440) for 25+ years.
And working on your SECOND one (540).
Surprisingly, this (funding for roads/transportation) seems to be an issue where the neighbor to the south tends to do it better. Certainly there are issues (bridge maintenance in particular is a huge issue, but also in NC also), but the SCDOT tends to do an OK job. I was actually surprised that I-77 in York County got widened and resurfaced sooner than I-77 in Mecklenburg.
Uhh, you do realize that the federal government is responsible for maintaining the interstates, right? 90% of the money comes from the feds, not the states.
And if you think SC roads are better than NC, I'd say you haven't spent much time driving in SC, at least off the interstates.
I do think this is a case of "the grass is greener". In the 15 years or so since I left Charlotte, they have completed a number of significant road projects, such as widening NC 51, Harris Blvd., Hwy 16, and many other roads, improving and re-aligning Independence Blvd., US 521/Johnston Rd. improvements, made improvements to Douglas Airport access roads, completed much of the 485 beltway, and on and on. So I don't think you'll get much sympathy on this issue from anyone who isn't from Charlotte.
But you guys have had a beltline (440) for 25+ years.
And working on your SECOND one (540).
We can't even get our first one finished.
Please move to Raleigh and see how awful our roads are. 440 is only 30 miles. 540 won't get done for another 15-20 years! None of our freeways are up to date, let alone lit... Raleigh has worse roads than Charlotte by a looooong shot. Those eastern NC politician DO NOT live in Raleigh. They Despise this city!
And if you think SC roads are better than NC, I'd say you haven't spent much time driving in SC, at least off the interstates.
I'm a native SC'er and was born and raised in a more rural part of SC. My point was that urban areas in SC seem to get a better share of road funding in SC than NC. Outside of that, it's nothing spectacular.
I feel the same way about Charlotte and the 'big dogs' in raleigh. I mean everything eventually happens but it is so slow. I think they have a certain complicated system they use or they just really dont care. I wonder if this would be a problem if Raleigh and Charlotte were closer together. Good luck on your move.
Please move to Raleigh and see how awful our roads are.
Lived there 1989-1997
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