Knife in the Back (wife, person, present, dynamics)
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I'm an independent type. I don't make friends easily, haven't had many in adult life, and I have a high standard of what a friend is. So I thought I made one. Similar age, nearly identical work careers, and a common abiding interest in the outdoor pursuits. And we made a great team. What I could not do, he could and vice versa. Together we made excellent judgement calls to keep ourselves out of trouble and we did things that neither one of us could do by ourselves.
All was fine if we were the only two in the room or around the campfire but when there was a third person, any third person, I noticed that he tried to be dominant, alpha if you will. This gave me some pause but I did not pay much attention.
One spring we planned a trip to a very remote desert area of the West. At first it was going to be just us, but I suggested that we bring another vehicle along for safety. He suggested a friend of his. These two had been on many such trips before so I readily agreed.
On the trip things were fine for the first couple of days. I was going some place I had never been and I had companions, something rare and precious. However on the third day his behaviour towards me changed. He became flippant, sarcastic, and finally down right demeaning. This attitude was not in evidence with the other fellow...me only. It got worse as the trip progressed, I was becoming enraged but could not do anything about it because we were in one of the most remote parts of the United States and I was in his vehicle.
At trips end I was only too happy to get away from him. When I told my wife the story, she was flabbergasted. She could not relate or understand to the change in personality. All of this has left me befuddled, angry, and hurt. As I said before, friends (to me) are rare. This experience has put me back to more strongly held position of staying away from people and pursuing my interests alone.
How would you respond to this? What is your take on it?
It's REALLY difficult to know what exactly the problem is since we only have your vague version of events.
I do know, however, that the saying, "Three's a crowd..." is well known for a reason.
The dynamics change when you add a third person to your mix. It's different for everyone, but I see it all the time with my sons. Two friends can have a sleepover with no problems for an entire weekend.
But when you add that third person, things ALWAYS go awry. The reasons WHY depend on the personalities in the mix.
I will say that based on your post alone, it sounds like you think an awful lot of yourself, and perhaps you get a persecution complex when you feel someone is "invading" what's yours.
I'm sorry you had to go through that. Not sure what could have set him off, but he could have been trying to show off for his friend. Not sure how I would exactly respond, but I do recommend caution with him in the future. I used to have a friend who used to do that, but mainly depending on the other people added to the group. It could be this third person is a similarly sarcastic, angry kind of person and they are projecting onto you. I can tell you with this friend I had, the way I handled it was that I didn't really participate in as many group events with her because I was afraid she would get sarcastic and mean with me.
Oh wow. I've been through that one too. As soon as there is another present the friend you thought you had turns on you. I dealt with that by excluding that person from my life from then on. It's proven a very prudent and wise measure and has saved me a great deal of grief. This person is NOT your friend at all, and has a really sick trip running. Anyone who needs to demean you and mistreat you in front of others has serious issues and wants to get at you with them, but craves an audience for it. My own brother would do this to me. When we were alone together everything was fine, but when one of his friends was present he would tear into me in the most demeaning ways, playing to his friend for support in his attacks on me. I've not spoken to him in years, and never will again. He's a snake.
Oh wow. I've been through that one too. As soon as there is another present the friend you thought you had turns on you. I dealt with that by excluding that person from my life from then on. It's proven a very prudent and wise measure and has saved me a great deal of grief. This person is NOT your friend at all, and has a really sick trip running. Anyone who needs to demean you and mistreat you in front of others has serious issues and wants to get at you with them, but craves an audience for it. My own brother would do this to me. When we were alone together everything was fine, but when one of his friends was present he would tear into me in the most demeaning ways, playing to his friend for support in his attacks on me. I've not spoken to him in years, and never will again. He's a snake.
Oh my gosh....this is exactly what I've experienced (not w/my brother, tho)
Privately, this guy was ok,
but with an audience-
he turned into an abusive,
vicious & cruel person.
The verbal assaults, the mockery &
the harshness got to be way too intense.
Idk why I put up with it- I guess I thought I could change him.
I call people like that wolves in sheep's clothing.
I was in a similar situation with one of the women on a trip about 20 years ago. There were four of us, and she was the sister of my road roomie. After the trip, I just didn't talk to them again. She called me a couple of weeks later, when she found out I was going to travel with someone else in the group and the other person and I were going to be in a position to rub elbows with people the meanie wanted to meet, but I just kind of flatlined on her with one-word answers until I said, "Well, I have to go now."
But you're men. Isn't the joke that men don't stab each other in the back, and instead just duke it out and then go have a beer afterwards and forget about it?
I will say that based on your post alone, it sounds like you think an awful lot of yourself, and perhaps you get a persecution complex when you feel someone is "invading" what's yours.
Just a thought.
Sorry, but this seems a bit presumptuous and rude of you to say. His "vague version of events" isn't really much to go on, but his post is enough to label him stuck up? Just a little bit unfair on your part.
To the OP, my middle brother does this kind of thing from time to time. He and I get along very well when we're alone, but frequently when other personalities are introduced, he becomes a chameleon and tries to change his behavior based on who's present. It's not always a bad thing, because I fully understand that he's the kind of guy who enjoys being the life of the party, but every so often in these instances he becomes a little demeaning or dismissive of me for no reason at all. I don't know if it's because he feels like he needs to look cool or dominant or funny in front of a crowd, but it always made me insanely angry when I was younger. Nowadays, I just tell him he's being weird and go about my business.
Obviously, the above is a bit different from your situation because it's my brother and not my friend. When I have a problem with a friend, it always eats at me until I address it directly - there's absolutely no way I can just go on acting like nothing is bothering me. If I were you I'd probably talk to him about it, and depending on how he reacts, go from there. He may apologize, he may say you're being too sensitive, he may get angry because you're telling him he acted like a jerk... you never know. Any of those is better (in my eyes) than not talking about it, being hurt and mad, and perhaps risking that it will happen all over again. If he's going to treat you like that, it's probably not worth the effort and anguish to be his friend. True friends would never make you feel that way, or at the very least, they would apologize if they acted so inappropriately.
I hope things work out, and maybe the guy will see the error of his ways.
Sorry, but this seems a bit presumptuous and rude of you to say. His "vague version of events" isn't really much to go on, but his post is enough to label him stuck up? Just a little bit unfair on your part.
You can certainly tell from his wording of how he views friendship that he has a LOT of walls up.
People like that are either fatally insecure, which means they don't really socialize at all, or they have a supremely healthy ego because they view others at not worthy of "getting in." Since this guy is going on days-long trips with others, I went with option B.
Unfair? No, just my opinion, which he asked for by posting here.
I certainly hope he can work something out, but we honestly don't know what was said or how things really went.
People like that are either fatally insecure, which means they don't really socialize at all, or they have a supremely healthy ego because they view others at not worthy of "getting in." Since this guy is going on days-long trips with others, I went with option B.
I think this is an oversimplification of "people like that." I'm a pretty reserved guy myself, and I'm neither insecure nor arrogant.
It's not bad to have high standards for your friends, either, as long as you're not a hypocrite.
Quote:
Unfair? No, just my opinion, which he asked for by posting here.
Hey, nobody said you couldn't share your opinion. I just found it rather ironic that you made a snap judgment about him after suggesting that there wasn't enough information to accurately gauge the situation with his friend.
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