I Love Ny! (Howard: condo, living in, store)

[Dedalus]

Yes, I'm sure the CDC would appreciate it.

I'm counting the days till I get offa this moron infested sand bar.

[anonymous]

Originally Posted by Joe L

Thats all that happened to you ?
I am recording in a Sumter, SC recording studio one day and run out to Wendys for some quick dinner, with no light or traffic in sight I run down and across the street.

WOOP WOOP ! Out of nowhere the police stop me, I get the story, they know right away I am from New York
The officers ask for ID and write a ticket: "PED (pedestrian) aprox speed 6 MPH", I say come on guys I run faster than that is this some kind of TV program like candid camera ?
{no answer)
The cops (in boots) Then ask how much money is on my possession (some vagrancy law). I say ….oh come on now how much you guys want? …I get pushed to the pavement and burned in the back with 2 electric dart guns

Next I am sitting in the police station on a chair cuffed to a radiator asking to call my lawyer in NY and being told no more calls, and I never had a cellphone on me "Shut-up" "Drop dead" "ROAST TO DEATH"
Cost my Girlfriend $1500 to bail me out the "misunderstanding" (after they harrassed her for 2 hours, hung her coat and paraded her through the station house.
Very hostile currupt place, she thaught she was going to raped.

Judge said pay the yellow traffic ticket $35 for J walking "PED approx speed 6MPH" "We are serious about the safty of our visitors remember next time this is not New Yawk City"

-Joe

I don't want to laugh at your misfortune, but that is really funny story, if you have more context. I grew up in Sumter, SC. That place is awful. Just a little background:

"Based on statistics reported to the Federal Bureau of Investigation, Sumter was ranked the nation's most dangerous metropolitan area in 2004.[1]. "Most dangerous metropolitan area" is based on crime statistics in six categories: murder, rape, robbery, aggravated assault, burglary, and auto theft."

Here's another good tidbit:
"Sumter, South Carolina is in the in the 99% percentile rank in the nation for violent crime. Lower numbers are better. In this case, 99% of cities in the U.S. have crime rates equal to or lower than Sumter. Or said another way, 1% of cities in the U.S. have crime rates higher than Sumter."

Here's my personal favorite:
Aggravated Assaults per 100K people:
Sumter, SC:1178.8
Camden, NJ:1120.7
Newark, NJ:494.9
New York, NY:344.4
National Average:340.1


We have our fair share of criminal lunatics running around, and the cops are usually in war-zone mode. If you smart off to a Sumter cop (and by their standards, you did), they are going to make your life really crappy. Maybe policemen in New York don't take offense as easily, but it is very much a "respect" issue in Sumter. Add that you're from out-of-town, and that's another strike. Add that it's New York, and that's another strike. But it could happen to anyone; they don't discriminate against NY'ers as much as you'd think, but I imagine they would take the opportunity to rub it in your face.

The moral of this post: not everywhere in the south is like Sumter, SC; your experience is an unusually bad one in an unusually bad town.

[Joe L]

Thanks for the info everbody but I do not planning on ever going back to Sump-ter again, them good old boys and boot jackers all can kiss my instant grits and other things I cant type here.
Problem with all this the violence and explosive nature in Sumter is due to in-breeding (like pit bulls) I’m sure me being a white didn’t help also.
Have seen the same behavior in St. Croix

[I LOVE PA!]

I moved from LI to Pa., and most of the locals are not fond of the NYers. They make fun of the way Nyers talk, pushy, stuff like that, but they laught about it amongst themselves. If I ever moved to a place and got treated the way you poor people were treated, I'd be out of there!
What in the heck gives them the right to think they are better than anyone else, and Yeah! I bet they all go to church on Sunday and bang on their bibles. Real Christian attitudes. I used to think that someday I would move down South when I got tired of the cold, but I'll shovel snow anyday to avoid being treated less than human.

[Joe L]

Originally Posted by I LOVE PA!

What in the heck gives them the right

They are all related or friends in small towns, from the newspaper boy to the Judge.
If your from New York City your wrong no matter what in parts of the south.
I still have 4 burn dots on my back from where those animals tried to "teach me a lesson" by trying to electrocute me and terrorize my girlfriend.
I didnt show fear and kiss there butts thats why they did it, they tried to break me like a horse.
....and again New Yorkers don't even know how to J "WALK" "PED 6MPH"
We run like hell more like 12-15 MPG (like crossing Queens Blvd).....friggan bunch of idiots
"Bible Packer's" LOL ..I wonder if they went to church the next morning

Let me ask:
Has any one here from NYC ever "J walked" @ 6 MPH ?


-Joe

[Torn2pieces]

I love NY, although I no longer live there.

I've lived in a few states and for the most part I was accepted, except for Virginia. I got picked on, insulted because I was a NYer. I can understand how the OP feels.

[homeward bound]

There's never any excuse for unjust treatment, from stereotyping to outright brutality, so please don't think I'm offering any. Joe L, what they did to you is just outrageous.

And I'm not saying there isn't any prejudice against "Yankees" generally and NYC-ers esp. in the South. I'm not doubting what people have been reporting here.

But I must say, I've been in Virginia for 23 years (hailing from Western NY), and I haven't seen anything against "Yankees" & NYC-ers beyond a few sneers and eye-rolls. And I don't have a NYC accent or even my old WNY accent anymore, either, and I've done a lot of fishing out in the country, wandering around out-of-the-way towns, worked closely with Southern families and individuals as a social worker and teacher, etc. So I've had a lot of chances to "fit in" and see Southerners being as "Southern" as they want to be.

My guess, then, is that this anti-Yankee/NYC attitude spikes most where there's an influx of ex-Northerners. Again, NOT to excuse it at all, but some of it probably comes from Southerners assuming that Northerners are already looking down on and feeling entitled to eclipse Southerners. It is, then, at least partly a combustion of insecurity, defensiveness, and worry that a familiar pride in one's home area will be undermined by either criticism or change. The only Northerners I've seen get an anti-Yankee treatment are those who either obviously looked down on Southerners to begin with, or aggressive people whose *personal* qualities the Southerners mistook for "Northern" qualities. When there's been a minimum of mutual, human-to-human respect to begin with, and when the predictable humans-interacting-with-each-other tensions are dealt with on the relevant terms rather than by resorting to stereotyping--when difficulties are dealt with person-to-person, not region-against-region--I have not seen bigotries against either "Yankees" or "rednecks" flaring. In fact, I've seen a lot of Southerners and Northerners exchange genuine curiosity about and apprecation for regional differences and distinctiveness. Two of the closest friends on our town softball team, for example, are my very Irish-American chemist friend from Boston and my very Country-Boy Plumber friend from the Blue Ridge Mountains.

And at the risk of inflaming some, I've got to say that I've actually seen LESS racism in the South than I saw in the North. A big reason is, I think, that the blacks here have been here a long, long time. And despite the awful centuries of outright racism in the South, somehow the races managed to have some rapport, some points of commonality. All of which have (hallelujah!) increased since racism has lessened so much in the South. As a result, very few of the Southerners I've known see blacks the way that many Northerners still do: as rivals for jobs, as new threats to an old and familiar way of life, as neighborhood-wrecking newcomers with weird habits and accents, as people fundamentally different from them, etc. In the very Appalachian town I've been in for 13 years now, even when blacks and whites have fought--as our all-white team did with a mostly-black team during a heated softball game this summer--it was about the game's tensions and typically petty personality clashes. It had nothing to do with race, and burned itself out just fine. Half the players we fought with we'd also played with on other teams, and will play with again.

What I HAVE seen more of down South is fear of The Foreigner, probably because the South just hasn't had the centuries of immigrant tides to absorb that North did. Down here, even an Italian last name will raise an eyebrow for its relative "strangeness." Many of the Asian students, visitors, and Asian-Americans I know report being much more "uncomfortable" in the South than do the blacks I know. None have met violence, but few have met an easy acceptance.

I think that this, again, is a part of the Yankee/Redneck tension we're seeing here. When Southerners feel that they're not being looked down upon just for being Southerners, they're pretty welcoming or at least accepting. But their culture, due its relatively homogeneity, and its ancient urge to rally round the regional identifiers (the high school football team, NASCAR heroes, the pickup truck) does have a tough time accepting obvious difference as equally American or, sometimes, even equally human. It's an insular and self-protecting culture. But most of the people in it ARE willing to see beyond their culture's limits IF they get some assurance that they're not being looked down upon themselves.

[homeward bound]

A number of historians & sociologists (and plain observant people) have suggested that a big reason why Southerners have long been so intent on rallying 'round the identifiers--the college football coach, the country music star with the biggest cowboy hat, etc.--is to tell themselves that they, the un-famous Southerners, Belong and Matter.

This pattern seems to have its roots in the several centuries where such passionately self-identifying Southern poor whites were one rung above slaves (and later "freed" but repressed blacks). If you can say, "I get my share of belonging by joining the loyalty-rituals," you don't feel as exploited, dehumanized, marginalized, etc., even though you're stuck within the share cropping system or at a non-unionized cotton mill or used as cannon fodder for wars.

The same coping strategy has been suggested for why (beyond racism and simple territoriality) poor Southern whites, whose wages and incomes were kept artificially low by slavery, rallied so passionately 'round the Generals and Confederate leaders. Made them not feel held down themselves, made them feel valued--though they clearly didn't have the opportunities for learning, advancement, prosperity, escaping poverty, legal equality, etc., that most Northerners did at the same time.

I must admit, I don't know how accurate all this is. But it does seem to have a grain of truth to it. It's not just ignorance that can lure someone into xenophobia and racism. It's often an unmet need to belong, and/or to heal (or seem to heal) the hurt of feeling left out or rejected yourself. When you're stuck in a caste system, telling yourself "I'm not stuck and it's not a caste system and I'm valued because I embrace our cultural cues" can be very intoxicating.

This may be why some Southerners are so so quick to over-react to perceived "Yankee" sneering: maybe, deep down, they already doubt whether a culture so preoccupied with the Glorious Leaders really does value them all that much.

And, more broadly, this may explain a lot of the rage--North and South, East and West--toward illegal aliens that seems so often so far beyond the facts. "The more I hate Them, the more I'm one of Us."

The old story of that fine, cutting line between a generous pride in one's region and the strangling poison of tribalism....

[NYer]

Love your post, homeward bound.
For a few months after 9-11, I thought we would all pull together & finally forge a national identity of sorts, something important around which to rally
Then I thought we could unite after Katrina
But, soon enough, after both events, the solidarity unravelled, & we are back to our petty distinctions.

[anonymous]

Homeward bound, there are some truths to what you're saying. I think the topics are mostly historical rather than contemporary, but they do apply a little bit, I think.

The only place I've ever felt 'looked down upon' is the northeast. In my visits to Philadelphia, New York, and Boston, people constantly try to explain things to me like I'm an idiot. "Ohh. you'll NEVER survive in NEW YORK CITY!"

Also, it's the perception that because I'm a white southerner, that I'm a racist. That's probably #2 on the list of things that irritate me.