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What are these clowns going to do, with all of the towns and counties in New York state, that have names that are Native American origin?? Like 'West Seneca', 'Seneca Falls', 'Seneca County', the town of Irondequoit, etc, etc.........
Some people are unwilling to accept that something they think is innocuous might offend others. "Oh, they're just too sensitive!" is a common defense.
But that doesn't make it less offensive to the insulted party.
Since the decision makers at these schools have already demonstrated a lack of empathy, a simple, clear rule has been established: no Native American names. Because if the rule was "no offensive names," people would be arguing endlessly.
I think they should get rid of all the names that refer to a group of people. "The Fighting Irish" implies that Irish people are belligerent. And why Irish, anyway? Did Notre Dame (a French name) admit only Irish to the school? Or only Irish were allowed on the team?
Note: ND was a Catholic school, a group that was...ahem...not respected by followers of other religions. Many Irish were Catholic, so the whole school got the nickname. What an inspirational story, well worth preserving. /s
Some people are unwilling to accept that something they think is innocuous might offend others. "Oh, they're just too sensitive!" is a common defense.
But that doesn't make it less offensive to the insulted party.
Since the decision makers at these schools have already demonstrated a lack of empathy, a simple, clear rule has been established: no Native American names. Because if the rule was "no offensive names," people would be arguing endlessly.
I think they should get rid of all the names that refer to a group of people. "The Fighting Irish" implies that Irish people are belligerent. And why Irish, anyway? Did Notre Dame (a French name) admit only Irish to the school? Or only Irish were allowed on the team?
Note: ND was a Catholic school, a group that was...ahem...not respected by followers of other religions. Many Irish were Catholic, so the whole school got the nickname. What an inspirational story, well worth preserving. /s
Maybe the question to ask some of these guys who so want things to remain the same as in the old days is to reverse the title thread of the question. Is keeping a school sports team name really a priority?
I think they should get rid of all the names that refer to a group of people. "The Fighting Irish" implies that Irish people are belligerent. And why Irish, anyway? Did Notre Dame (a French name) admit only Irish to the school? Or only Irish were allowed on the team?
Note: ND was a Catholic school, a group that was...ahem...not respected by followers of other religions. Many Irish were Catholic, so the whole school got the nickname. What an inspirational story, well worth preserving. /s
LOL you would get more of a fight than you bargained for, from the rabid Irish fanbase if you tried erasing that name. Most of them don't know the origin of the name either.
The 69th New York Infantry Regiment fought bravely starting from its formation in 1849, and it had a reputation for having a lot of Irish immigrant soldiers. They earned the nickname "Fighting 69th" during the Civil War (some say the name was bestowed by Robert E Lee out of respect for his foe).
When the U.S. entered World War I, poet Joyce Kilmer (Joyce was his middle name, and he was a man. He also wrote Trees, which you've heard of) joined the 69th and wrote a poem called "When the 69th Comes Back" that contains the line:
"God rest our valiant leaders dead, whom we cannot forget;
They’ll see the Fighting Irish are the Fighting Irish yet."
The 69th came back, but Kilmer did not, having been killed in action and buried in France in 1918. But his poem may have been the first time the 69th were called the Fighting Irish.
When the University of Notre Dame began to have phenomenal success on the gridiron in the 1920's they were called the Blue and Gold, although some sportswriters had already started casually calling them the Fighting Irish. In 1927 the university president, a Catholic priest named Walsh, officially adopted the nickname Fighting Irish.
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My all time favorite sports team name is the Atlanta Black Crackers, a Negro League team that modelled their name after the white minor league Atlanta Crackers. I sort of wish those two names were still around, just to see what people would make of them.
Good example. Let me add some more perspective on this. I live in South Dakota where we (I believe) have the 2nd most Native Americans per capita. With that knowledge alone you can pretty much understand that I know several Native American people. Back when the U. of North Dakota was going through all the issues about their Fighting Sioux name I asked a couple of my Native American friends if this was offensive. ALL of them said they liked the name.
My partner is almost full-blooded Indigenous (Tlingit and Crow). He doesn't care much about these matters, but I wouldn't use his individual opinion as a meter for what is/isn't offensive to an entire ethnic group. I doubt you know enough of them to make this call, either.
Quote:
Conclusion? Most Indian people could care if a school's mascot was Indians, Warriors, Braves, or the name of the local tribe. However, there are a few names that, to me ARE really dicey. Such as Scalpers (a college in SD once was named this) or (yes) Redskins. Then who IS responsible for all this crap? It's the overly offended white liberal suburbanites who want everyone to know how caring and (here we go again) WOKE they are.
Ugh. Nothing more cringey than using the term "woke" now, especially in this context. And if you really want to talk about people being easily offended, you might want to look the other direction. Coors Light ring a bell? That's just for starters, but this is best saved for the P&OC forum.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmgg
As I mentioned, having schools called Indians, Warriors, Braves etc. is a nothing to most Native Americans. I'm part Irish and could care that Notre Dame says that my ancestors are always fighting.
Since you made this mistake twice, I thought you should know - the phrase you're going for here is "couldn't care (less)." The way you keep phrasing this, it implies you do in fact care.
[quote=gizmo980;65175578]My partner is almost full-blooded Indigenous (Tlingit and Crow). He doesn't care much about these matters, but I wouldn't use his individual opinion as a meter for what is/isn't offensive to an entire ethnic group. I doubt you know enough of them to make this call, either.
Quite true. I talked to 4 or 5 back then. Not a huge sampling, but I'd say enough to show a pattern among Native American acquaintances that are NOT residing on a reservation. Perhaps the answer would be different with those on the rez. If you've ever been to a reservation in SD, ND, or MT you'll right of way notice that there isn't much to be proud of there. Maybe the use of some of these names harkening back to their earlier days could be a source of pride. Just speculating there.
Ugh. Nothing more cringey than using the term "woke" now, especially in this context. And if you really want to talk about people being easily offended, you might want to look the other direction. Coors Light ring a bell? That's just for starters, but this is best saved for the P&OC forum.
Cringe away. My use of it with the (here we go again) says quite clearly that I'm sick of the term myself. BUT, it does describe the attitude.
Since you made this mistake twice, I thought you should know - the phrase you're going for here is "couldn't care (less)." The way you keep phrasing this, it implies you do in fact care.
I'm so pleased that as a member in good standing of the City-Data editorial board you were able to correct this. I DON'T care. Is that better?
Keep in mind with a school every year they have to make a budget for spending on items with the names and images of the mascots on them. It's not just words people use. They are committing each year to renewing interest in these ideas.
You've never heard of the Romani people? The modern Indo-Ayran nomadic people to whom gypsy is a slur?
Of course you don't mind the other, you aren't Jewish and must not be able to feel shame.
Yeah ... I am Bulgarian living in the US. I don't know any gypsies who don't use that term and I have known a LOT of them over the years, especially among my parents' friends. The only people I know who use that term (Roma) aren't gypsies! You're getting super huffy over something you don't understand. There are specific slurs that (European) people call gypsies, but that isn't one of them.
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