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I suspected that was the case, I am pretty well traveled, even NY but have not seen every nook & crany. Was hoping something even half of that existed. I do like the Northeast for its change of season & climate. Cost of living and economics are the pits though. Dont worry, I would never move to KS City area or even any state close. If I ever looked elsewhere other than NY, it might be the upper midwest, though the economic issues may be the same there too. We are a Mennonite family and I would rather stay out of PA if possible. Too much family. though it is a remote option. We have a saying that Mennonites are alot like doo doo. When you gather them up in big piles it gets a little stinky, but spread em out and we make good fertilizer. (for what that's worth). If it wasnt for our background, PA is really one of the best states.
I can think of a couple of Minnesota communities that would come very close to what you are seeking. The cost of housing is subtantially higher than what you are looking for though.
You will have to move to the South or parts of the Midwest or West Coast to find the strongest economies. Some areas of New England and eastern NY have good economies but they will be too expensive for you. But with that you will be paying more for housing though it won't be as expensive as New England or eastern NY unless you go to California. Avoid that of course. The Syracuse and Albany areas of NY have the best economies in the upstate and CNY regions. WNY needs a little help though Buffalo is slowly, very slowly making a rebound.
If you can accept half of what your list indicats then there is indeed some hope. There are a few communities that come somewhat close to what you are looking for if you can make some concessions on a few things such as population, proximity to a larger urban center, and tourism. I'm not sure what a fully equipped park is though. I like hiking and camping in more remote forests and you can find some of these all over NY State and New England. You will not find a community filled with a stable middle class any more as it is being squeezed out by the powers that be. A few metropolitan suburban communities might offer that but obviously you don't want to live right smack in the midddle of a metro area. A clean cut ambience will only be found in places that you want to avoid. This is not to say the communities I am recommeding are completely dumpy of course. But they are rough around the edges and don't have the kind of money a Canandaigua or Saratoga Springs has. Neighborhoods intermingled with small fields or woods is all but out. But you will be very close to rural areas that immediately surround the communities and you can easily walk or bike to them.
The places that I recommed all possess the following: All have affordable housing. All have decent libraries. All are more or less devoid of Yuppies. Not near the Canal but by rivers or lakes. Downtown areas that are close to what you have in mind and near hills or in small hills. They all have plenty of older structures in their downtown areas some of which have been rehabbed to look much as they did when first constructed.
The closest match would probably be Fredonia which is 45 miles southwest of Buffalo. It is a college town but not a preppie community by any stretch of the imagination. It still has a fairly decent downtown area and it is easy to walk or bike around.
Next best would be Oswego which is 40 miles north of Syracuse. Fulton just to the south of Oswego might also be a possibility. Oswego is another State Univ. of NY town (SUNY) as I mentioned in an previous post but again it is not a preppie town. Lots of interesting architecture in the downtown area too though it does have some empty store fronts. But most NY and New England downtowns have those these days.
Batavia which is 30 miles east of Buffalo on the NY Thruway is another option. Housing here is a little more pricey than the Dunkirk-Fredonia area or Oswego but not out of your reach from what I can tell.
All of the above have less than 20,000 people and are comprised of reasonably down to earth people. Fredonia and Oswego being college towns will have a somewhat transient population but this is true of society in general now. The average person now changes jobs every one to two years and many of these people change residences when they move. Western PA is much more stable in this regard but since you've discounted that as a potential place to live you will just have to settle with the best that NY has to offer, at least as far as what comes reasonably close to what you are looking for. And, I might add, crime rates in each of these places are well below the national average.
If you can I recommend that you visit each of these communities and see for yourself. I don't know much about the Johnstown-Gloversville area though. Aside from having a great little AM radio station in WENT AM 1340 I can't offer much information at all other than the crime rates seem a bit high for such small cities.
Thank you Radio friend, you are very helpful. I have heard other good things about Oswego. Good thing I like snow. I know some of these towns really get socked. I too love camping in remote areas but about anywhere in Upstate is easily accessable to good mountain areas. Some of the qualities that you mentioned might be a compromise are areas which I would be willing to give up first. A college town, for example, isnt necessarily a bad thing because it can add a vibrancy and I do know that not all college towns are preppie or loud, in your face, never ending parties. A well equipped park has a playground for children, picnic tables, a ball field and maybe a pond or fountain. I could give that up if biking to the edge of town or nearby would offer close to the same thing. Just dont want to go through miles of sprawl to get to anything and certainly dont want to live smack dab in a city. I can take a plus/minus in the population with a bit more diversity of housing and income level but on some of the city-data towns I see 40 or more registered sex-offenders. I hate to judge or make assumptions because some of that data may be missleading but that sounds a bit spooky for a city the size of 20,30 or 40K. Or 10-15 registered for a city of around 10K. Some of that stuff I can overlook because this isnt a perfect world but just doesnt sound too good.
I live temporarily in Schenectady and its not what I want but really isnt as bad as some make it out to be. I see the place starting to clean up but dont think it will happen overnight. Scotia is a darling little village so close to the city but has its own identity and feels like a village. It has one of those Perfect parks next to the river and connects to a looong stretch of the canal bike trail. Close to anything you want. Houses are packed a little tight but you can get out of town FAST to some remote areas. ONE BIG PROBLEM. Housing is do-able (starting at about 150'ish) but the taxes are absolutely crazy. For a 12-1500 sq ft place the taxes start at around 6,000 and go up. 2/3 of that are for school and the school is only average. People all seem to be good hard working middle class folks but have to live like zombies to make their payments. Or else are stacking their debt and will fall apart one day.
Thanks again for your help, will check them out further
Have you looked at Bennington, Vermont? I know New England quite well being a native and that would be a place worth looking at. If you can spend up to 150 grand for a home then you can afford to buy into Bennington.
At this time I cannot think of any other New England communities that would come close to your needs. Most that are about the right size are going to have lots of preppie college types and housing prices that are beyond your means. New England is famous for preppies especially on the college campuses. On the bright side they are less obnoxious than the Yuppies out in my neck of the woods.
I was in Jamestown this past week and the common theme was that unlike other towns in upstate NY, Jamestown 'died' in the late 50's and thus lost all of its baby-boomers and now the children of the boomers (the grandkids). So really there is nothing left. This is what I suspect will happen to most areas of NY if things (mass migrations OUT) do not change. Once a considerable demographic of people ALL leave the area.....this is what you get. An upswing---even if times do get good---doesn't matter that much as much of the educated population has left.
I was in Jamestown this past week and the common theme was that unlike other towns in upstate NY, Jamestown 'died' in the late 50's and thus lost all of its baby-boomers and now the children of the boomers (the grandkids). So really there is nothing left. This is what I suspect will happen to most areas of NY if things (mass migrations OUT) do not change. Once a considerable demographic of people ALL leave the area.....this is what you get. An upswing---even if times do get good---doesn't matter that much as much of the educated population has left.
Very well put, but i would say jamestown died a little earlier than the 50's.. Jamestown was a thriving town built on a foundation of factories.. once those factories closed, there was nothing left but run down buildings and chemicals that were leeched into the ground. The democrat-run state certainly does not make it worth while for businesses to come to ny state, and certainly not jamestown, where the educated leave and the poor are bussed in.
I am thinking of visiting Jamestown, NY because I am a big I Love Lucy fan. Would you suggest going to the city at all for that? If so is it safe to stay in the a motel in the city? Anything else would be very helpful. Thanks.
Sorry if I missed it, but did anyone mention schools? Jamestown's schools are not good. They are ranked consistently near the bottom of all WNY districts according to Business First (they rank districts every year) . As a general rule, the quality of a school district is a barometer of an area. Here's a link to one of Biz 1st's recent rankings: Williamsville tops the school rankings again - Business First of Buffalo:
I am thinking of visiting Jamestown, NY because I am a big I Love Lucy fan. Would you suggest going to the city at all for that? If so is it safe to stay in the a motel in the city? Anything else would be very helpful. Thanks.
You would almost literally have to start a fight to get yourself into a bad situation in Jamestown. There's really not a lot of spontaneous violence, at least not in the "smoothed-over-but-still-falling-apart" section of 3rd street that I refer to unlovingly as Lucyville.
I'm sitting roughly three blocks from Lucille Ball's childhood home in Celeron (Not Jamestown, mind you.). I'll happily go take all the pictures of it you want before I leave town again. There's no good reason to come here from anywhere, unless you have business here. It's more hype than content.
Pragmaniac brought up the area schools.
The schools in Jamestown itself, I can't speak much for. But just outside the city is the Southwestern Central school district, where I attended (Class of '04). It gets referred to as the "Country Club on the Hill", and I suppose it pretty well earned that title. Where Jamestown is primarily the.. I don't want to say poor and destitute of the area, it's somewhat true. The yuppies all live in Lakewood and their precious Ashleighs and Taylors all attend Southwestern.
I'll gladly throw my vote to avoid the entire area into the ring. Once I graduated, I moved immediately south, to Pittsburgh. While it may not be the economic powerhouse of a city it once was, I'd rather be in the Pittsburgh area than here. (However I'm home on a break to visit family. I can't wait to go back 'home')
I was raised in Jamestown, this is a city gone bad. From the mayors office to the police department, nasty attitudes, disrespectful people, crime galore, is everywhere. The city restore its bridges with gray ugly concrete, and the utility company has taken any chanch of us having a beautiful riverwalk system and instead put its ugly equipment and buildings on it. Call the police and you get "why the hell are you calling me bull". Go to city hall and you are treated with sad and miserable facaes. The city is takeing down all it history and putting up square gray and ugly concrete buildings in thier place. The school are very ugly, gray, concrete and looks like prisons from the deserts of Bagdad.
I grew thinking this was a great place, and it was, but money greed and poor management have taken it toll on Jamestown.
Oh! did I mention the streets, ok, here is a good one, there isnt a street in Jamestown without a pothole, recurring potholes, why? because ythey fill them over and over again, year after year after year. Street that are replaced are done so poorly they fall apart in less then a year, and coast the tax payers hundreds of thousands more doing it again and again. And costing the people thousands in repairs to thier vehicles.
Ok, I said my peace, live in Jamestown at your own risk.
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There are a few communities that come somewhat close to what you are looking for if you can make some concessions on a few things such as population, proximity to a larger urban center, and tourism. I'm not sure what a fully equipped park is though. I like hiking and camping in more remote forests and you can find some of these all over NY State and New England. You will not find a community filled with a stable middle class any more as it is being squeezed out by the powers that be. A few metropolitan suburban communities might offer that but obviously you don't want to live right smack in the midddle of a metro area. A clean cut ambience will only be found in places that you want to avoid. This is not to say the communities I am recommeding are completely dumpy of course. But they are rough around the edges and don't have the kind of money a Canandaigua or Saratoga Springs has. Neighborhoods intermingled with small fields or woods is all but out. But you will be very close to rural areas that immediately surround the communities and you can easily walk or bike to them.
Bad place to live
