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I thought that the bridge was originally supposed to have the subway run on it. Why the idea was trashed, I'll never understand. It would make it easier for people to at least travel between SI and Bklyn, and provide an alternate route to Manhattan.
Absolutely right. For that matter, the Throgs Neck Bridge between The Bronx and Queens was also designed to carry a transit line. Neither has one because (yeah, we've gotta dredge up his name) Robert Moses was a dedicated opponent of mass transit. In fact, I believe he once made a public statement that there would never be a transit line running across those bridges.
As to the other issue brought up--that a line running from Bay Ridge into Staten Island would have to be an express...let's worry about that if it happens! Safe to say, it would have to be. But it's a moot point at present.
Interesting Map & Article by the Transport Politic , i believe we should push for this plan. The Orange line line would eventually hook up into the planned Elizabeth Light Rail Network.
That's an interesting plan, but one thing you can count on not happening (read: NEVER) is any part of MTA's system crossing a border into New Jersey. Why? Politics...and economics.
If the system crossed a state line, it would then fall under the legal definition of a railroad. As it currently exists, the subways in New York City are defined legally as an urban transit system--but not a railroad. If that was to change, then all of MTA's employees would have to be paid according to Federal scale.
That is one thing MTA will not allow to happen. You can, literally, take that to the bank.
This would be a fantastic idea. We need to look no further than how successful the the Hudson-Bergen Light Rail has been to see that our area can use and will embrace innovative, new commuter rail.
Making more of Staten Island commutable to the 2.1 million jobs that exist in manhattan goes a long way toward reducing housing prices throughout the metropolitan area.
I have never been on that ferry but SI needs a subway..
I agree! Not only for visiting friends over there - but because they have some fantastic parks/outdoor areas.
I won't hold my breath though. With all the problems the MTA has in managing their budget, I cannot see this expansion happening in my lifetime. I think we'll see flying cars before we see a subway over to SI!
It will also improve tourism...Most people who visit NY never visit SI and many Natives have never been or just drove through SI... Some beautiful mansions in SI that were once homes to very wealthy NY'ers and Celebrities back in the day. and I hear there are some wonderful restaurants as well ....Now i understand why many SI landers want to be seperate state or county.
That's an interesting plan, but one thing you can count on not happening (read: NEVER) is any part of MTA's system crossing a border into New Jersey. Why? Politics...and economics.
If the system crossed a state line, it would then fall under the legal definition of a railroad. As it currently exists, the subways in New York City are defined legally as an urban transit system--but not a railroad. If that was to change, then all of MTA's employees would have to be paid according to Federal scale.
That is one thing MTA will not allow to happen. You can, literally, take that to the bank.
True , but once the economy rebounds i think we will see a push for more rail on SI. I mean the SI Expressway and 440 are turning into 24/7 traffic jams , gas is going up.....The PA would operate the lines that cross into Jersey form NYC. Once the New Bayonne Bridge gets constructed , the first LRT will be built into SI.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gradstudent77
This would be a fantastic idea. We need to look no further than how successful the the Hudson-Bergen Light Rail has been to see that our area can use and will embrace innovative, new commuter rail.
Making more of Staten Island commutable to the 2.1 million jobs that exist in manhattan goes a long way toward reducing housing prices throughout the metropolitan area.
Wait intill we build the Union-Elizabeth-Newark-Essex-Paterson-Bergen Network , then you'll really see how good LRT is. The New Terminal for the HBLR opens in a few weeks 8th street in Bayonne. SI will defiantly get LRT sometime this decade , its just a matter on how fast it will be constructed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chichappens
I have never been on that ferry but SI needs a subway..
A Subway will never happen , it might cost as much as 400 million$$$ per mile for the Tunnel sections.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cokatie
I agree! Not only for visiting friends over there - but because they have some fantastic parks/outdoor areas.
I won't hold my breath though. With all the problems the MTA has in managing their budget, I cannot see this expansion happening in my lifetime. I think we'll see flying cars before we see a subway over to SI!
LOL, indeed....the MTA will take the cheaper way out via LRT then the expensive Rapid Transit.
The level of misinformation here is astounding. The Verrazano Bridge was never designed to have a subway line because Moses was utterly opposed to mass transit. TA did express a passing interest in a subway line over the bridge, but settled for a bus line as the bridge design shut trains out. There were three efforts to connect the NYC Subway to SI. The first was a combined effort by the Baltimore and Ohio railroad (who ran the SI Rapid Transit system) and the old BMT Company to build a bridge then a tunnel connecting the Fourth Avenue subway in Brooklyn to the SIRT in Tompkinsville. BMT even planned out lines and the city secured property across the North Shore and B&O ordered its new electric cars (in the early 1900s) to be identical in size and configuration to BMT cars. Mayor Hylan reportedly killed this idea. The second plan was a Board of Transportation plan to extend the Brooklyn IND line from Church Avenue and Fort Hamilton Pkwy to Staten Island via Fort Hamilton Pkwy, 86th Street and a Narrows tunnel to a terminal at Westervelt and Hamilton in New Brighton and a southern leg somewhere in Rosebank. Shafts for this line were actually dug in Tompkinsville and Bay Ridge (one can still be found covered by a concrete cap along the Belt Parkway). This extension was considered so certain that a SI Advance in 1940s featured a banner headline heralding the imminent new line. Post-WWII economics and Moses killed this. The third and most vaporous was a vague proposal by MTA in 1968 to include a lower Manhattan extension of the Second Avenue line through NY Harbor to Staten Island in its Phase Two master plan for transportation expansion (1982 and beyond) in NYC. MTA has since dropped any consideration for a subway to SI. Any expansion of the subway through New Jersey would be cinch. There's no physical reason the HBLR couldn't continue in or through SI to Elizabeth and Linden, for example. Even a tunnel probably could be built extending the Fourth Avenue (R) line from 59th Street (95th is too shallow) to SI to a terminal under the I278 at Targee Street with a multi-story park-and-lock like Quincy Adams in Boston, a transfer to bus lines and SIR, but the political will if not the money simply isn't there. Something will be built someday as the ferry and fragmented transportation to and from SI simply won't work without strangling the economic development of SI and NYC.
Location: Port Richmond, Staten Island, New York City, New York, 10302
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I've lived on Staten Island for 22 years and haven't heard as much as a whisper against connecting the island to the rest of the city via train.
Maybe in the 70's and 80's people were afraid, but in 2011 I'd be shocked if such a plan wasn't overwhelmingly embraced.
Not that it'll ever happen though. Ever.
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